Shall we speak to that etymologically, philosophically, or are shall we just settle for The Beatles?

(August 5, 2011 at 9:22 pm)Epimethean Wrote: Shall we speak to that etymologically, philosophically, or are shall we just settle for The Beatles?

Speak of both if you will. I'm interested to what you think about perfection or what is perfect. So many views on the idea that i find we do not know what it is and should not speak of it truthfully unless we are marking high praise for beloved artists.

If by "people like me" you mean people who do not presume that their fantasies have an effect on reality, what other answer did you expect? What's wrong with not knowing?

You're asking for subjective opinion. Porterhouse steak is perfect to me, but the cow would disagree. There are many opinions of what is perfect precisely because it is subjective.

(August 5, 2011 at 7:54 pm)C Rod Wrote: That's the answer i always get, from somebody like you. I was hoping something more wonderful or different, something inspiring and vulnerable, something to be considered. Since your a man of observation, may i ask you what is perfect; what thing can you prove to me is perfect?

Science is the best way yet invented by humans in verifying the truth from things we would like to be true, but aren't. It doesn't make any claim about being wonderful, inspiring, vulnerable etc. You would need to go to more philosophical discussions around aesthetics for that. But meanwhile while your tip- tapping on your PC just remember that it was discoveries in quantum mechanics, electricity, material science that led you to have a PC at all. And whilst you may wish to poke fun at scientific endeavors it is the same standard that led to those discoveries being applied to all scientific endeavours be it evolution or abiogenesis. The things we have never seen in science is a god, or a heaven, or a hand descending from the sky zapping rabbits into instant being. Of course there could be an immaterial, invisible, ineffable, unknowable all perfect super thing out there ( which is simultaneously has a mind more complex than the universe but is also the simplest being possible) playing hide and seek with us and always winning. Or and it may be a bit mundane we live in a universe without such a creature and we are biological scum on the surface of an ordinary planet, wheeling it's way around an ordinary main sequence star. Whilst you may find that an unappealing vision, there is no evidence at all for your wish thinking and an awful lot of evidence which contradicts it. So if you want to play silly games about things like perfection, go for it. You believe there is a perfect god, prove that that god can exist deductively and inductively...the floor is yours

(August 13, 2011 at 11:22 am)Captain Scarlet Wrote:

(August 5, 2011 at 7:54 pm)C Rod Wrote: That's the answer i always get, from somebody like you. I was hoping something more wonderful or different, something inspiring and vulnerable, something to be considered. Since your a man of observation, may i ask you what is perfect; what thing can you prove to me is perfect?

Science is the best way yet invented by humans in verifying the truth from things we would like to be true, but aren't. It doesn't make any claim about being wonderful, inspiring, vulnerable etc. You would need to go to more philosophical discussions around aesthetics for that. But meanwhile while your tip- tapping on your PC just remember that it was discoveries in quantum mechanics, electricity, material science that led you to have a PC at all. And whilst you may wish to poke fun at scientific endeavors it is the same standard that led to those discoveries being applied to all scientific endeavours be it evolution or abiogenesis. The things we have never seen in science is a god, or a heaven, or a hand descending from the sky zapping rabbits into instant being. Of course there could be an immaterial, invisible, ineffable, unknowable all perfect super thing out there ( which is simultaneously has a mind more complex than the universe but is also the simplest being possible) playing hide and seek with us and always winning. Or and it may be a bit mundane we live in a universe without such a creature and we are biological scum on the surface of an ordinary planet, wheeling it's way around an ordinary main sequence star. Whilst you may find that an unappealing vision, there is no evidence at all for your wish thinking and an awful lot of evidence which contradicts it. So if you want to play silly games about things like perfection, go for it. You believe there is a perfect god, prove that that god can exist deductively and inductively...the floor is yours

I liked your response it held different ideas. I just think the acceptance of just science as truth is boring.
If i could prove that God was real we wouldn't be talking right now but you would be acknowledging that God against your will simply because he was real and you would be punished kinda like the laws and judicial system.
But i want to know sense science is the answer, than why don't the newspapers and tele proclaim its proof that is all powerful and everything else is a lie. That if knowledge is going to fix the problem, then we cant let the parents that preach teach there kids what they know. You must stop this or it will always be the the same. Unless...

Quote:the constant ridicule of the faithful.

Admit to yourself that the reason you come here is to be ridiculed. The majority of us have been where you are and rejected it for the childish horseshit that it is.
Don't pretend you expect anything else.

Unless what CRod? Your analogy is an infuriating pile of shit. Do you have any newspapers proclaiming the glorious return of christ? Fucking newspapers. Did you pray your pc on before you posted? Were you spirited to work by winged chariots? Does mana fall from your ceiling? Did you attend a heavenly concert this year? No, all of it, that boring shit you don't like called science. The feeling is mutual, it doesn't care if you breath either. That's life, get a handle on it and act like an adult. You don't like explanations because they're boring?

Fucking tedious bullshit. I'd rather you just posted scripture.

---

Ever notice how many "IF"s there are in your sig btw CRod?

(August 14, 2011 at 9:43 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Unless what CRod? Your analogy is an infuriating pile of shit. Do you have any newspapers proclaiming the glorious return of christ? Fucking newspapers. Did you pray your pc on before you posted? Were you spirited to work by winged chariots? Does mana fall from your ceiling? Did you attend a heavenly concert this year? No, all of it, that boring shit you don't like called science. The feeling is mutual, it doesn't care if you breath either. That's life, get a handle on it and act like an adult. You don't like explanations because they're boring?

Fucking tedious bullshit. I'd rather you just posted scripture.

---

Ever notice how many "IF"s there are in your sig btw CRod?

"Act like an adult" priceless, What the intellect wants to do so as to grab control. What is an adult anyways, what you say it is. Talking about the explanations of science. Such a boring existence, such work for gain. Is that great if you explain and then i explain the same thing, why should i do it if you have already done it.
Yea the "IF"s are modest, humble, they are witness.

CRod, would you feel cheated if natural selection is at work, and you are one of those selected against due to having received a double dose of the god gene?

(August 14, 2011 at 9:23 pm)C Rod Wrote: I liked your response it held different ideas. I just think the acceptance of just science as truth is boring.
If i could prove that God was real we wouldn't be talking right now but you would be acknowledging that God against your will simply because he was real and you would be punished kinda like the laws and judicial system.
But i want to know sense science is the answer, than why don't the newspapers and tele proclaim its proof that is all powerful and everything else is a lie. That if knowledge is going to fix the problem, then we cant let the parents that preach teach there kids what they know. You must stop this or it will always be the the same. Unless...

In the last 100 years the media has indeed gone to science rather than theology. Secondly the medias primary job is to report and not make the news, if they were to proclaim as such they would be making the news. Thirdly they would also be alienating their followership, most of whom have been raised on a diet of various different forms of theological sewage from parents and religious hierarchies. Your challenge is thus invalid.

But given all its inherent disadvantages science still forces it was into the agenda, because it works and explains our world much more powerfully than any theology
could. The amazing discoveries of the 20th century have brought us a fantastic set of technologies and understanding of our world and are in my view not at all boring, especially when contrasted against tablets of stone and burning bushes. Then in contrast think of the theocracies around the world which have embraced bronze age thinking of their religious texts and have thus returned their societies to the bronze age and control there media to the extent that they deny scientific claims in spite of the evidence.

Now to the challenge i set you, which you have avoided. You want to talk of perfection, you believe a perfect god. Whether that god exists or not that perfect
god can be conceived of. So prove that this god can exist ,not does exist, but can exist and what are his attributes?

And add to that a new challenge. You do not accept science has primacy in seeking truth. Name a single theological discovery which has replaced a scientific discovery at any time in human history.