(October 30, 2017 at 12:52 pm)Khemikal Wrote: If value is assessed, and objectively so..then by what metric is it assessed?  What standard is the omniscient mind using?

Goodness/morality is layered, there is secret hidden in secret hidden in secret. That is the nature of love. It is sacred manifest but hidden, hidden but manifest, it is connected to us all, making us believe with emotion attached to value, with different hues and colours to the love.  It has rules, implications, states, potentials, traits, etiquette, and reality, in different stages we are at, and different states we are in, with respect to different things, but all in all, true love is true vision of value with attachment. The peace and states that come with true love is part of it, the emotion is part of it, but it's not it's main feature. The main feature of love is the degree of belief in the value of a thing or person. The degree you value it is the degree you love it.

(November 1, 2017 at 9:52 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(October 30, 2017 at 12:52 pm)Khemikal Wrote: If value is assessed, and objectively so..then by what metric is it assessed?  What standard is the omniscient mind using?

Goodness/morality is layered, there is secret hidden in secret hidden in secret. That is the nature of love. It is sacred manifest but hidden, hidden but manifest, it is connected to us all, making us believe with emotion attached to value, with different hues and colours to the love.  It has rules, implications, states, potentials, traits, etiquette, and reality, in different stages we are at, and different states we are in, with respect to different things, but all in all, true love is true vision of value with attachment. The peace and states that come with true love is part of it, the emotion is part of it, but it's not it's main feature. The main feature of love is the degree of belief in the value of a thing or person. The degree you value it is the degree you love it.

"Bob Saget!"

Let's try again.

If value is assessed, and objectively so..then by what metric is it assessed?  What standard is the omniscient mind using? A moment ago you mentioned what was beneficial to human beings. Can we run with that?

(November 1, 2017 at 9:51 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(November 1, 2017 at 9:46 am)MysticKnight Wrote: You may not like brussel sprouts for personal use, but if others do eat them, you should value them for other's sake. And that should value is due to objective standards, they are beneficial for people. And that is based on facts. Whether you like them or not, doesn't take away their value to others.

Excellent, so..what is beneficial to people is the objective standard.  I can live with that.  The wishes and designs and plans of furnace operating pixies are irrelevant.

Not really,  when love is more hidden and more sacred than to not have hidden world come with it.

---

(November 1, 2017 at 9:53 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(November 1, 2017 at 9:52 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Goodness/morality is layered, there is secret hidden in secret hidden in secret. That is the nature of love. It is sacred manifest but hidden, hidden but manifest, it is connected to us all, making us believe with emotion attached to value, with different hues and colours to the love.  It has rules, implications, states, potentials, traits, etiquette, and reality, in different stages we are at, and different states we are in, with respect to different things, but all in all, true love is true vision of value with attachment. The peace and states that come with true love is part of it, the emotion is part of it, but it's not it's main feature. The main feature of love is the degree of belief in the value of a thing or person. The degree you value it is the degree you love it.

"Bob Saget!"

Let's try again.

If value is assessed, and objectively so..then by what metric is it assessed?  What standard is the omniscient mind using?

Itself. God is One.

(November 1, 2017 at 9:54 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Not really,  when love is more hidden and more sacred than to not have hidden world come with it.

Itself. God is One.

So, things being beneficial to others isn't an objective fact of valuation after all?  Make up your mind.  I'm uninterested in the self interested and arbitrary standard of your pet fairy.  It means nothing to me and has no value in my life.

Whether god is one or eight or the square root of tuna....irrelevant.

Yes, "God" really is one.

(October 24, 2017 at 9:00 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(October 24, 2017 at 8:42 am)MysticKnight Wrote: 1. It is greater to exist than not to exist (We try to prevent death because we all believe in this).

No.

It is preferable to continue existing once one already exists (assuming that life isn't unbearable). If I did not exist to begin with then no one would care.

I'd actually argue that overall the world would be an improvement if life never existed because overall suffering outweighs pleasure.

A truly perfect being is a nonexistent being.

So in that sense I guess God is pretty perfect

Oh by the way . . . has anyone else here heard of this parody of the ontological argument?

Quote:Australian philosopher Douglas Gasking (1911–1994) developed a version of the ontological argument meant to prove God's non-existence. It was not intended to be serious; rather, its purpose was to illustrate the problems Gasking saw in the ontological argument.
Gasking asserted that the creation of the world is the most marvellous achievement imaginable. The merit of such an achievement is the product of its quality and the creator's disability: the greater the disability of the creator, the more impressive the achievement. Non-existence, Gasking asserts, would be the greatest handicap. Therefore, if the universe is the product of an existent creator, we could conceive of a greater being—one which does not exist. A non-existent creator is greater than one which exists, so God does not exist. Gasking's proposition that the greatest disability would be non-existence is a response to Anselm's assumption that existence is a predicate and perfection. Gasking uses this logic to assume that non-existence must be a disability.

(November 1, 2017 at 9:56 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(November 1, 2017 at 9:54 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Not really,  when love is more hidden and more sacred than to not have hidden world come with it.

Itself. God is One.

So things being beneficial to others isn;t an object fact of valuation after all?  Make up your mind.  I'm uninterested in the self interested and arbitrary standard of your favorite fairy.  It means nothing to me and has no value in my life.

He was talking about food. I was saying there are objective measures to that should make us value it, even if we don't know the exact value.
Likewise, when someone does actions that are beneficial for you which you can know objectively they are beneficial for you, you should assume well of their intentions, and appreciate them.
But what you are appreciating when someone is doing such actions is not just the action, but the person acting for your sake, which is an act of love, and you appreciate them due to their love towards you, but you don't know the degree nor the hue of their love exactly.
God knows it because it in its exact form and measurement, he knows it's exact beauty.
However, when we observe people, we assess their actions...whether we like it or not. We form judgments whether we want to or don't.
We do so with belief their is an exact reality to their states.
Actions cannot be divorced from their inner state and intentions. And God knows the secret language of intentions and creates it with respect to himself.

(November 1, 2017 at 10:02 am)MysticKnight Wrote: He was talking about food. I was saying there are objective measures to that should make us value it, even if we don't know the exact value.
Likewise, when someone does actions that are beneficial for you which you can know objectively they are beneficial for you, you should assume well of their intentions, and appreciate them.

If I can objectively assess whats beneficial for me (or others)..then I have no need of djinn.

Quote:But what you are appreciating when someone is doing such actions is not just the action, but the person acting for your sake, which is an act of love, and you appreciate them due to their love towards you, but you don't know the degree nor the hue of their love exactly.
God knows it because it in its exact form and measurement, he knows it's exact beauty.
However, when we observe people, we assess their actions...whether we like it or not. We form judgments whether we want to or don't.
We do so with belief their is an exact reality to their states.
Actions cannot be divorced from their inner state and intentions. And God knows the secret language of intentions and creates it with respect to himself.

"I said Bob Saget!!!"

MK really doesn't know how to make an argument nor how to recognize a decent one.

I got to go work on an assignment.

God has been proven to you guys over and over again, when you digest a single argument, all the arguments will also click.

I really can't afford to procrastinate any longer.

See ya heathen brethren in humanity!