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RE: Anslem's argument is sound.
October 25, 2017 at 10:07 am
(This post was last modified: October 25, 2017 at 10:09 am by The Grand Nudger.)
You think that, but that's just an affirmation of your own biases. In any meaningful sense, the greatest x would be better at y than any other thing..and unless that includes immorality and destruction..a greater possible x exists.
In any case, if you wish to maintain that the greatest x is the things you prefer..you'll have to come to terms with your own gods failure by your own metrics.
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RE: Anslem's argument is sound.
October 25, 2017 at 11:27 am
In what sense are leprosy, foetal harlequin syndrome, plague bacilli, cancer, and general human misery made 'greater ' by existing?
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Anslem's argument is sound.
October 25, 2017 at 11:49 am
(October 25, 2017 at 11:27 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: In what sense are leprosy, foetal harlequin syndrome, plague bacilli, cancer, and general human misery made 'greater ' by existing?
Boru
If you are addressing me, I don't see how your question relates to anything I said.
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RE: Anslem's argument is sound.
October 25, 2017 at 12:15 pm
(October 25, 2017 at 11:49 am)SteveII Wrote: (October 25, 2017 at 11:27 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: In what sense are leprosy, foetal harlequin syndrome, plague bacilli, cancer, and general human misery made 'greater ' by existing?
Boru
If you are addressing me, I don't see how your question relates to anything I said.
Exactly.
What were you thinking, Brian? This conversation isn't about actually existing things. It's about the definitions of postulated, imaginary beings. Please raise your snout from the trough of reality, and get with the 'my definition of x requires y, so x' program.
Besides, in the Christian scheme, the horrors you listed are either natural evils that Yahweh didn't intend or create but that resulted from sin (ultimately 'our' fault, somehow) or are only apparent evils visited on us by a loving god for our own good (somehow) and we are unable to understand the infinite wisdom and goodness involved in such a plan. Again, our fault.
Better to stick with 'Thy will be done' and not think too carefully about it all.
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RE: Anslem's argument is sound.
October 25, 2017 at 2:03 pm
(October 24, 2017 at 4:27 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (October 24, 2017 at 1:16 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: I imagine it was because it was bollocks.
See the philosophy video, it explains why quite clearly.
While there is nothing wrong with it, I don't do philosophy by animated videos. I'd rather learn from books, preferably from original sources, although I do listen to university lectures often enough.
Wasn't animated, it was a philosopher explaining the argument and why it made no sense in detail also the rebuttal and the rebuttal to the rebuttal.
What it boiled down to was you could use anselms argument to "prove" any idea you happened to have no matter how fanciful.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
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RE: Anslem's argument is sound.
October 25, 2017 at 2:12 pm
(This post was last modified: October 25, 2017 at 2:13 pm by SteveII.)
In case anyone wants to know the actual argument in an easy-to-understand way. And it is not true that you "could use anselms argument to "prove" any idea you happened to have no matter how fanciful."
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RE: Anslem's argument is sound.
October 25, 2017 at 2:12 pm
Bull you prefer reading it from an apologist loon who will reinforce your belief it works. And good video down it really takes the hatchet to Anslem.
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RE: Anslem's argument is sound.
October 25, 2017 at 2:59 pm
(October 25, 2017 at 11:49 am)SteveII Wrote: (October 25, 2017 at 11:27 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: In what sense are leprosy, foetal harlequin syndrome, plague bacilli, cancer, and general human misery made 'greater ' by existing?
Boru
If you are addressing me, I don't see how your question relates to anything I said.
Nope, just a general question. Sorry, I should have been more specific.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Anslem's argument is sound.
October 25, 2017 at 5:25 pm
(October 25, 2017 at 10:05 am)SteveII Wrote: No...I was pointing out what 'perfectly immoral' would entail. I think it is clear that it is qualitatively better to be creative, loving, nurturing, structured, etc. because these attributes are more conducive to relationships between rational/thinking/emotional beings (us and God) than their opposites. Not 100% of the time. Destruction is often times a catalyst for creation.
Had a small planet or planet like object not collided with Earth millions of years ago, the moon wouldn't exist and we, most likely, wouldn't be here.
Had the Chicxulub event not occurred, we, very likely, would not be here.
Had a super massive star not exploded billions of years ago, we, very likely, would not be here.
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RE: Anslem's argument is sound.
October 25, 2017 at 6:24 pm
(October 25, 2017 at 5:25 pm)LostLocke Wrote: (October 25, 2017 at 10:05 am)SteveII Wrote: No...I was pointing out what 'perfectly immoral' would entail. I think it is clear that it is qualitatively better to be creative, loving, nurturing, structured, etc. because these attributes are more conducive to relationships between rational/thinking/emotional beings (us and God) than their opposites. Not 100% of the time. Destruction is often times a catalyst for creation.
Had a small planet or planet like object not collided with Earth millions of years ago, the moon wouldn't exist and we, most likely, wouldn't be here.
Had the Chicxulub event not occurred, we, very likely, would not be here.
Had a super massive star not exploded billions of years ago, we, very likely, would not be here.
I don't disagree with you, but it does not apply to the conversation. You are making a category mistake. My subject was clearly moral relationships and actions. You are talking about physical things.
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