(November 10, 2017 at 12:22 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(November 10, 2017 at 12:17 pm)emjay Wrote: Well it makes absolutely no logical sense for it to do so in a game of Mafia;

People are more emotional than logical.

Also, it's not just about whether I'm voted or not - it's more a matter of, why would I play games with people who hate me? I know that not all atheists here are like that, but a lot are. Enmity is significantly higher than when I started doing this.

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I mean come on emjay, 21 people - including you - kudo'd a post which says:

Quote:The converts though do not deserve pity so much as contempt because they have essentially outsourced their morality.

I find you contemptible - let's go play a game together doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Truth and facts are not subject to popularity.

Suppose I told you that there is an entity that can be anywhere at once. This entity is observing you continuously, awake or asleep or quietly masturbating. This entity will reward you if you follow the rules,  and punish you if you do not. This entity has millions of faithful believers worldwide.

His name is Santa.

(November 10, 2017 at 4:23 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Truth and facts are not subject to popularity.

Suppose I told you that there is an entity that can be anywhere at once. This entity is observing you continuously, awake or asleep or quietly masturbating. This entity will reward you if you follow the rules,  and punish you if you do not. This entity has millions of faithful believers worldwide.

His name is Santa.

Oh wow you're a fucking genius, that just blew my mind like an earphone jack on the bottom of the phone!

(November 10, 2017 at 4:26 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(November 10, 2017 at 4:23 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Truth and facts are not subject to popularity.

Suppose I told you that there is an entity that can be anywhere at once. This entity is observing you continuously, awake or asleep or quietly masturbating. This entity will reward you if you follow the rules,  and punish you if you do not. This entity has millions of faithful believers worldwide.

His name is Santa.

Oh wow you're a fucking genius, that just blew my mind like an earphone jack on the bottom of the phone!

And your deity of choice is totally different in which way?

(November 10, 2017 at 4:28 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: And your deity of choice is totally different in which way?

Uh...let's see...oh yeah, no adults believe in Santa. Guess you missed that.

How about people who believe that a frog can turn into a prince?

(November 10, 2017 at 4:10 pm)Aroura Wrote:

(November 10, 2017 at 3:15 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: So you are saying it is bullshit when atheists try to use this excuse to get out of having to explain their claims?

And I'm not talking about atheism as a description.

If someone says "atheists don't have beliefs", yah, they mean the atheism part of an atheist, not the whole person.  There is literally no one in the entire world who would say any adult person doesn't make claims or have beliefs.  Everyone does.  You are intentionally misunderstanding the meaning, are clearly talking about this one aspect.  I would call it poorly worded, not bullshit.  And I would call you disingenuous for going after semantics over the obvious implied meaning.

Perhaps I wasn't precise enough, but yes, I was talking about beliefs and claims in regards to God or gods.  I'm was not saying that they do not believe in nothing at all. 
I find that many make statements that betray a position of a mere lack of belief, and they try to slither out of it.

BTW I don't think that saying someone has childish aspects is viewing them as "contemptible".  I have childish aspects.  I still love kids movies, books, and games.  It's not a terrible trait, depending on how it is expressed.  I also would like to say that while I kudos and agree with some of the OP, I do not think people of any age willfully choose anything, so there is literally no point in judging them over it.  We can recognize traits, and I'm all for that, but then to go on to call the persons who display those traits willfully ignorant or the like is just, well, it's hurtful and counterproductive.  

Now, thinking someone is morally flawed person who chooses to ignore the divine in pursuit of selfish material desires, that is viewing someone as contemptible.  Which not all theists do view atheists as (thank you to the more kind and understanding among you!), but yeah, we get generalized a lot harsher than "childish", pretty often as well.  

I actually don't mind that theism has childish aspects.  To be 100% frank, a large part of me completely envies that about theists.  I really do wish I could retreat into that, to feel safe and loved and immortal again, like I did in my teens and 20's. But It's the nasty, overly-judgy, pushy parts of theism (And those that do those things) I dislike.  And again, not all, or even most, are like that.  I dislike it when atheists are like that, too!

So, I hope  clarified my stance on all that, if anyone even cares. :p

Peace.

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(November 10, 2017 at 4:32 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(November 10, 2017 at 4:10 pm)Aroura Wrote: If someone says "atheists don't have beliefs", yah, they mean the atheism part of an atheist, not the whole person.  There is literally no one in the entire world who would say any adult person doesn't make claims or have beliefs.  Everyone does.  You are intentionally misunderstanding the meaning, are clearly talking about this one aspect.  I would call it poorly worded, not bullshit.  And I would call you disingenuous for going after semantics over the obvious implied meaning.

Perhaps I wasn't precise enough, but yes, I was talking about beliefs and claims in regards to God or gods.  I'm was not saying that they do not believe in nothing at all. 
I find that many make statements that betray a position of a mere lack of belief, and they try to slither out of it.

Some atheists do indeed more actively believe there are no gods, but many still simply lack belief.  Sometimes it depends on which God we are discussing.  Like Zeus and Jehova are both in the same category, to me, of active disbelief.  But more general "deistic" gods, if you will, are more in the lack belief category. 
Atheism itself can range widely, but I think that is more on the Gnostic/agnostic sale than the atheist/theist scale, you know what I mean?

So I think it would depend on both the atheist, and the specific conversation. 

For instance, about the existence of a Zeus, who lives on top of a mountain and controls lighting, I can say I am a gnostic atheists.  I'm pretty damn sure he isn't real. But the pretty damn sure part is not the belief part, it's the knowing part (gnostic/agnostic).  

Am I making sense?

Comparing the God to Santa is a blatant category error. Anyone making it is a moron.

(November 10, 2017 at 4:32 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(November 10, 2017 at 4:10 pm)Aroura Wrote: If someone says "atheists don't have beliefs", yah, they mean the atheism part of an atheist, not the whole person.  There is literally no one in the entire world who would say any adult person doesn't make claims or have beliefs.  Everyone does.  You are intentionally misunderstanding the meaning, are clearly talking about this one aspect.  I would call it poorly worded, not bullshit.  And I would call you disingenuous for going after semantics over the obvious implied meaning.

Perhaps I wasn't precise enough, but yes, I was talking about beliefs and claims in regards to God or gods.  I'm was not saying that they do not believe in nothing at all. 
I find that many make statements that betray a position of a mere lack of belief, and they try to slither out of it.

That is an interesting observation.  In general, regardless of one's views, perhaps it is wise to refrain from making extreme claims/statements and be humble enough to admit that one doesn't have all of the answers.

(November 10, 2017 at 5:00 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Comparing the God to Santa is a blatant category error. Anyone making it is a moron.

As if I cared being called a moron by the likes of you. Yes. It is tantamount to that. A fantasy, a fleeting dream that you will never wake up from.

You might spend your whole life wondering about your next life with your god. I will enjoy the one that I have while you are at it. You can gave your hobby. Mine is to call out bullshit when I see it. (Disclaimer, this is not a post by me as a mod).

(November 10, 2017 at 2:29 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(November 10, 2017 at 2:20 pm)emjay Wrote: Well from my perspective it's hard not to see it as a delusion when many... not all but many... of its adherent's display all the hallmarks of delusion in their treatment of their beliefs;

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-j-ro...11148.html

Quote:Calling religion delusional has become an increasingly popular strategy for its critics. To my ear, there’s more to this than just a benign slight — there’s at least the hint of the pathological. Religion can be delusional, but to think it inherently so is to misunderstand both religion and delusion...

https://www.theguardian.com/science/brai...s-at-least

Quote:Religious beliefs are typically incompatible with scientific evidence and observable reality, but aren’t considered to be delusions. Why not? ...

NO they are NOT compatible not yours, not any.

Religious people accepting science does not make the religion itself a scientific method. Cherry picking are what ALL religions do. 

When they cant flat out debunk science, they will cherry pick the parts they like, and ignore all the conflicting stuff. It is nothing but compartmentalizing.

Scientific method is NOT compatible with ANY religion at all. 

If any one religion was really an equal "method" to scientific method, which it is NOT, then the world would all be on the same page.

There is no Allah theory of gravity.

There is no Vishnu theory of evolution.

There is no Buddha law of thermodynamics.

There is only made up religions humans have invented because they like the ideas, and there is the COMPLETELY independent scientific method.