(November 18, 2017 at 8:17 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(November 18, 2017 at 2:07 am)Little Rik Wrote: Propaganda not history?

Are you going to be a total fool until your last breath?  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Hello, fucktard.

Unless you really believe that some dead jew ascended to heaven after dying and rising to atone for your sins then I would say it is nothing more than bad propaganda.

And, if you REALLY believe that, then you are even fucking stupider than I thought you were.... and that was already pretty far up on the fucking stupid list.
Moron.

Imbecile.  

The link was all about showing that there is historic evidence that Jesus really exist.

That's all but a gnegno clown of your kind mix different things in the argument that I did not mention or argue about it.

Didn't I said that you will be a fool until your last breath?  

(November 18, 2017 at 12:12 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 17, 2017 at 11:17 pm)Succubus Wrote: This is a blatant knowing lie. Produce that evidence now! You have the floor. All eyes are upon you.

Not a lie at all. The general consensus amongst historians world wide is that Jesus was a real person who died by crucifixion under punctious pilot, the Roman prefect at the time. I remember even when I went to a public high school, Jesus' was mentioned in our World History book as the man who founded Christianity. His existence is just as much a historical fact as Cleopatra, Julius Caesar, and Mohammed. You can deny it all you want I suppose, but that is not what is widely accepted by people who actually study/investigate history.

"Widely accepted" is not evidence. And we have much more evidence of the other names you cited.  You sound like you're just repeating what you've been told without actually looking into it.

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[quote='Catholic_Lady' pid='1659122' dateline='1511029927']

New Testament scholars, yes. But the general consensus among historians as well, in regards to Jesus, is that He existed and died by crucifixion under Punctius Pilot. I know it isn't all of them, but it is generally accepted among most that at least that much is historical fact. 

No, it is not accepted as historical fact.

(November 18, 2017 at 12:12 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 17, 2017 at 11:17 pm)Succubus Wrote: This is a blatant knowing lie. Produce that evidence now! You have the floor. All eyes are upon you.

Not a lie at all. The general consensus amongst historians world wide is that Jesus was a real person who died by crucifixion under punctious pilot, the Roman prefect at the time. I remember even when I went to a public high school, Jesus' was mentioned in our World History book as the man who founded Christianity. His existence is just as much a historical fact as Cleopatra, Julius Caesar, and Mohammed. You can deny it all you want I suppose, but that is not what is widely accepted by people who actually study/investigate history.

It would be more accurate to say that the consensus among New Testament scholars is that Jesus was a historical person.

But no, it's not true that his existence is just as much a historical fact as other popular figures like Cleopatra and Julius Caesar. Even Bart Ehrman concedes that the "best" evidence we have for Jesus is in the New Testament and other early Christian writings, all riddled with biases and muddled by theological agendas. So that's not really saying much.

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(November 18, 2017 at 4:05 am)Aroura Wrote:

(November 18, 2017 at 12:12 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Also as a side note, you said there was historical agreement that the apostles existed? and that is simple not at all true, 
Even among biblical scholars, there is a wide division of opinion on this topic.

I think you might have misread this part, or maybe I'm the one who's misreading, but the existence of the Apostles is not what's questioned by scholars, but rather the reliability of the book of Acts.

(November 18, 2017 at 5:20 pm)Cod Wrote:

(November 18, 2017 at 5:16 pm)Godscreated Wrote: We, Christians are not certain when creation took place. We do understand through the scriptures it was some short time before the fall. The fall as far as we can determine happened some 6000 years ago because we can trace most of the linage back to Adam and Eve. what do you mean by original sin, I'm curious no atheist I've spoken with has ever said, can you put a name to it, the Bible does.

GC

You Christians are not certain about anything, you don't understand anything, the fall is a fairy tale, original sin is laughable, the bible explains nothing.

 Atheist are clueless to the spiritual world of God. You think because you can't understand it ti doesn't exist. One day you  will find out the Christians are right.

GC

Not today, I guess.

(November 18, 2017 at 6:24 pm)possibletarian Wrote:

(November 18, 2017 at 5:16 pm)Godscreated Wrote: We, Christians are not certain when creation took place. We do understand through the scriptures it was some short time before the fall. The fall as far as we can determine happened some 6000 years ago because we can trace most of the linage back to Adam and Eve. what do you mean by original sin, I'm curious no atheist I've spoken with has ever said, can you put a name to it, the Bible does.

GC

I take it then that you believe the bible is history

In a sense I do. It gives a history of a chosen people (Israelites) and it gives us a history of God's dealings with a sinful people (world).

possibletrian Wrote:Here is the dictionary definition of original sin.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/original-sin

noun
1.
Theology.

1. a depravity, or tendency to evil, held to be innate in humankind and transmitted from Adam to all humans in consequence of his sin.
   
2. inclination to evil, inherent in human nature.
   

2.
Roman Catholic Theology. the privation of sanctifying grace in consequence of the sin of Adam.

 I asked you for your definition and what you might call it, anyone who is lazy can go to a dictionary or web site and give an answer, that by no means tells me what you believe it is.

GC

(November 20, 2017 at 2:33 pm)Godscreated Wrote:

(November 18, 2017 at 5:20 pm)Cod Wrote: You Christians are not certain about anything, you don't understand anything, the fall is a fairy tale, original sin is laughable, the bible explains nothing.

 Atheist are clueless to the spiritual world of God. You think because you can't understand it ti doesn't exist. One day you  will find out the Christians are right.

GC

Wow. Because we disagree with your simplistic beliefs, we don't understand them. That's fundamentalist logic bullshit in a nutshell.

(November 20, 2017 at 2:59 pm)Godscreated Wrote:

(November 18, 2017 at 6:24 pm)possibletarian Wrote: I take it then that you believe the bible is history

In a sense I do. It gives a history of a chosen people (Israelites) and it gives us a history of God's dealings with a sinful people (world).

possibletrian Wrote:Here is the dictionary definition of original sin.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/original-sin

noun
1.
Theology.

1. a depravity, or tendency to evil, held to be innate in humankind and transmitted from Adam to all humans in consequence of his sin.
   
2. inclination to evil, inherent in human nature.
   

2.
Roman Catholic Theology. the privation of sanctifying grace in consequence of the sin of Adam.

 I asked you for your definition and what you might call it, anyone who is lazy can go to a dictionary or web site and give an answer, that by no means tells me what you believe it is.

GC

Well that's pretty much the definition I would give it too, do you have a different one ?

(November 17, 2017 at 7:35 pm)possibletarian Wrote: Okay here's my question,

These days there are many Christians who will support evolution and a very old earth 4.5 billions years old, with a universe that's along the lines of 14 billion years.

Somewhere in this period they throw humanity into the mix some believe Adam and Eve could still have existed, or be created especially during the time that humans were also evolving, others believe that Adam and Eve were just a story of man's fall from grace. Given that most biblical characters can be dated back by linage to Adam and Eve's children that gives us a period of around 6,000~7,000 years since those people existed.  When does what the bible says become real history ?

Where does it place original sin in this context ?

This is a very narrow minded question. It assumes there were no other competing creation stories prior to the monotheisms of Jews/Christians or Muslims, and that is flat out nonsense.

I don't care which religion is trying to square modern science with the mythology of antiquity, it does not work regardless.

If you ask some Buddhists they'd claim reincarnation is proof that our atoms get recycled. If you ask Muslims they'd claim science matches their book. If you ask Hindus, same thing.

Don't get stuck on one label.

They all try to either debunk science, and when they cant do that, try to get it point to their respective clubs and writings.

I am not kidding.

Google for example.....

"Christian science"
"Muslim science"
"Jewish science"
"Buddhist science"
"Hindu science"

YOU will find in every religion websites that use apologists to try to debunk science, or apologists who try to use science to point to their club.

Creation mythology existed LONG before Christianity, Jews or Muslims.

(November 20, 2017 at 3:33 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:

(November 20, 2017 at 2:33 pm)Godscreated Wrote:  Atheist are clueless to the spiritual world of God. You think because you can't understand it ti doesn't exist. One day you  will find out the Christians are right.

GC

Wow. Because we disagree with your simplistic beliefs, we don't understand them. That's fundamentalist logic bullshit in a nutshell.

Actually it's absolutely true we don't understand them, at least in the 'making and sense at all' the bible is clearly made up stories along with many other religious stories from the period from many religions about many gods.  We definitely don't understand why people believe them.  I can't believe I once subscribed to this nonsense, when i started educating myself they soon fell apart as being possible.

The so called 'spiritual word of god' seems to change per denomination, creed, religion, you name it, who could possibly make sense of that. Of course if you ask a member of any specific denomination or religion ! they are the ones who have it right, and all the other religions are blind !

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(November 20, 2017 at 4:25 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 17, 2017 at 7:35 pm)possibletarian Wrote: Okay here's my question,

These days there are many Christians who will support evolution and a very old earth 4.5 billions years old, with a universe that's along the lines of 14 billion years.

Somewhere in this period they throw humanity into the mix some believe Adam and Eve could still have existed, or be created especially during the time that humans were also evolving, others believe that Adam and Eve were just a story of man's fall from grace. Given that most biblical characters can be dated back by linage to Adam and Eve's children that gives us a period of around 6,000~7,000 years since those people existed.  When does what the bible says become real history ?

Where does it place original sin in this context ?

This is a very narrow minded question. It assumes there were no other competing creation stories prior to the monotheisms of Jews/Christians or Muslims, and that is flat out nonsense.

I don't care which religion is trying to square modern science with the mythology of antiquity, it does not work regardless.

If you ask some Buddhists they'd claim reincarnation is proof that our atoms get recycled. If you ask Muslims they'd claim science matches their book. If you ask Hindus, same thing.

Don't get stuck on one label.

They all try to either debunk science, and when they cant do that, try to get it point to their respective clubs and writings.

I am not kidding.

Google for example.....

"Christian science"
"Muslim science"
"Jewish science"
"Buddhist science"
"Hindu science"

YOU will find in every religion websites that use apologists to try to debunk science, or apologists who try to use science to point to their club.

Creation mythology existed LONG before Christianity, Jews or Muslims.

Actually Brian, I was simply trying to get a feel for how Christians specifically managed to marry the story of so called original sin and the earths time line, given that the story stems from Adam and Eve.  It was genuine question because I'm really not sure how they do it. I'm not aware of any Christian that subscribes to alternative creation stories, even though clearly they are there, even the bible as I understand it the bible has three mythologies for creation.