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Cod · December 1, 2017 at 4:29 pm

We now know that threatening children with punishments for a non belief in a fairy tale is immoral. We now know that our sense of morality has evolved. We now have evidence that your book is full of shit.

Astreja · December 1, 2017 at 4:29 pm

(December 1, 2017 at 3:28 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Bigotry
All my fear seemed so far away
I was never half the man I will never be
All because of bigotry

If only it was "Yesterday."

(December 1, 2017 at 4:17 pm)SteveII Wrote: Believe it or not, NT morality is a higher standard even as it has less specific do's and don'ts.

I think it's a bit of a mixed bag, Steve.

On the one hand you have things like Matthew 25:35-40, which promotes acts of kindness.
On the other hand you have the baffling concept of substitutionary atonement, with Jesus as a sacrifice to remedy a problem that mortals supposedly cannot remedy by their own actions (which makes me wonder how the powerless mortals could have created the problem in the first place).

**LadyForCamus** · (This post was last modified: December 1, 2017 at 4:41 pm by LadyForCamus.)

@steve

I'm arguing that it is relevant. Isn't god's morality supposed to be perfect, and unchanging? Why was the moral standard set so low for the Jews?

As far as "new information" goes, I don't think OP means new information about the concept of morality itself; but rather, we learn via science and research, new information about the world and about people. This new information leads to reevaluaton of what we as a society deem, "right" and "wrong", and why.

Example? We now know it's wrong to drown women or burn them alive at the stake for being witches, because we're reasonably confident there are no such things as witches.

**The Grand Nudger** · December 1, 2017 at 4:40 pm

Only a witch would make such a dubious claim. Magic book has spoken on the subject.

SteveII · December 1, 2017 at 5:02 pm

(December 1, 2017 at 4:38 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I'm arguing that it is relevant. Isn't god's morality supposed to be perfect, and unchanging? Why was the moral standard set so low for the Jews?

As far as "new information" goes, I don't think OP means new information about the concept of morality itself; but rather, we learn via science and research, new information about the world and about people. This new information leads to reevaluaton of what we as a society deem, "right" and "wrong", and why.

Example? We now know it's wrong to drown women or burn them alive at the stake for being witches, because we're reasonably confident there are no such things as witches.

That's an entirely different topic. My interest right now is on the thread title and the idea that morality should evolve.

Thank you for the example. Did the NT say to drown or burn "witches"? If not, your complaint is that a group added their own crap to NT instructions and then it was subsequently found to be crap. The OP did not say "misuses of religion stifles moral evolution", so I am assuming that it is the original instructions which define a Christian that has the "stifling" effect.

Do you have any more examples that more closely match your second paragraph (which seems so sure there has been progress)?

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: December 1, 2017 at 5:11 pm by The Grand Nudger.)

Quote:Do not allow a sorceress to live.

Exodus, 22-18.

IDK Steve, seems authoritative. I guess it leaves the manner of their execution up to the individual creativity of believers like yourself. Don't worry, though, if you don't catch em all, Jesus is gonna put em in the doghouse.

Quote:Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood

Rev 22-15

Presumably much wailing and gnashing of teeth occurs "outside", and also death.

You telling us that the OT -and- the NT got it wrong? Also..wtf did dogs ever do to jesus...? Or is that not literal..do they means dogs as in how jesus asked that one lady whether or not bitches deserved miracles?

Cod · December 1, 2017 at 5:10 pm

Mark is immoral, that's NT Steve. You make an argument why only disrespecting the holy spirit is unforgivable???? Kill, rape do what you like as long as you repent properly and accept the stuuuupid hippy as your saviour.

SteveII · December 1, 2017 at 5:15 pm

(December 1, 2017 at 5:06 pm)Khemikal Wrote:
Quote:"Do not allow a sorceress to live.
Exodus, 22-18.

IDK Steve, seems authoritative. I guess it leaves the manner of their execution up to the individually creativity of believers like yourself. Don't worry, though, if you don't catch em all, Jesus is gonna put em in the doghouse.

Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Rev22-15

Presumably much wailing and gnashing of teeth occurs "outside", and also death.

I know keeping the OT laws (addressed to a people group that does not exist anymore) and the NT (the defining set of books for the world's larges religion) separate are a problem for some. Don't worry, you will get the hang of it someday!

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: December 1, 2017 at 5:23 pm by The Grand Nudger.)

Last I checked, Revelation wasn't an OT law....and "jesus" doesn;t appear to have changed his opinion on the subject since exodus.

You seem to think otherwise...maybe your morality is evolving, after all? For clarity..is it that you disagree with your god on the subject of the existence of witches, or that you disagree with your god on how dickish we should be to them?

Angrboda · December 1, 2017 at 5:38 pm

(December 1, 2017 at 5:02 pm)SteveII Wrote:
(December 1, 2017 at 4:38 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I'm arguing that it is relevant. Isn't god's morality supposed to be perfect, and unchanging? Why was the moral standard set so low for the Jews?

As far as "new information" goes, I don't think OP means new information about the concept of morality itself; but rather, we learn via science and research, new information about the world and about people. This new information leads to reevaluaton of what we as a society deem, "right" and "wrong", and why.

Example? We now know it's wrong to drown women or burn them alive at the stake for being witches, because we're reasonably confident there are no such things as witches.

That's an entirely different topic. My interest right now is on the thread title and the idea that morality should evolve.

Thank you for the example. Did the NT say to drown or burn "witches"? If not, your complaint is that a group added their own crap to NT instructions and then it was subsequently found to be crap. The OP did not say "misuses of religion stifles moral evolution", so I am assuming that it is the original instructions which define a Christian that has the "stifling" effect.

Are you suggesting that the new testament says that we are to abandon law altogether? That seems a bit steep.

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