(December 2, 2017 at 11:29 am)wallym Wrote:

(December 1, 2017 at 4:06 pm)Aroura Wrote: Original BBC article here

So...is this just the beginning?  Or is this going to be as bad as it gets?  I've read more than one speculation that Kushner is going down soon, but that is just speculation.
None of us can tell the future of course, but I'm curious what predictions people have.

My one prediction is that there will be apologists in this thread, and they will use the same deflect/ignore tactic they've been using for months.  Let's see if I'm right!

Something I'm not clear on.  If he had told the truth about these things, rather than lying to the FBI, what would he be charged with?  If the only criminal act is perjury, there's no way for it to go up the chain outside of more perjury charges.  Or is there some secondary treason type aspect that is also getting attached at a later date?

He admitted to inappropriate contact with the Russians

(December 2, 2017 at 9:41 am)Brian37 Wrote: Ding dong, the beeaaatch is dead, the orange beeeaatch, ding dong the orange beeaatech is dead.

Mueller's going to drop a house on someone soon.

Don’t be over confident.  I think republicans will gut all government and legal institutions to protect trump.  The United States we knew, with its institutions, traditional decorums, checks and balances both de Jure and de facto, is a dead man walking.

Either democrats gain the house and supermajority in the senate, a virtual impossibility, or trump will stay to veto anything the democrats passes to reverse the tax plan.

The decline of American institution in my opinion can’t be stopped without bloodshed and violence.  Even if the decline is stopped in a few decades due to demographic shifts and the impact of fall of American comparative standing in the world hit home, and institutions, traditional decorums, checks and balances are restored, it would still be an irreparably and greatly diminished country.

(December 2, 2017 at 12:23 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(December 2, 2017 at 9:41 am)Brian37 Wrote: Ding dong, the beeaaatch is dead, the orange beeeaatch, ding dong the orange beeaatech is dead.

Mueller's going to drop a house on someone soon.

Don’t be over confident.  I think republicans will gut all government and legal institutions to protect trump.  The United States we knew, with its institutions, traditional decorums, checks and balances both de Jure and de facto, is a dead man walking.

Either democrats gain the house and supermajority in the senate, a virtual impossibility, or trump will stay to veto anything the democrats passes to reverse the tax plan.

The decline of American institution in my opinion can’t be stopped without bloodshed and violence.  Even if the decline is stopped in a few decades due to demographic shifts and the impact of fall of American comparative standing in the world hit home, and institutions, traditional decorums, checks and balances are restored, it would still be an irreparably and greatly diminished country.

All Mueller has to do is squeeze either Trump himself, or his family hard enough, and the coward will step down to avoid impeachment. Obstruction is looking pretty damned good right now.

I think you underestimate Mueller.

I'm glad Flynn was charged but I'm still not convinced Trump will be impeached and convicted. I think he could still serve out 2 terms until January 2025. Even if he made a prime time speech announcing and admitting that he committed a litany of felonies, if Congress won't bring charges and impeach (and I don't think they will), none of it matters.

Sure, Congress could flip to Democratic in 2018. But let's not forget that the same Russians who butted into our 2016 presidential election are 100% certain to butt into the 2018 US Congressional elections if they haven't started to already. And the Republicans who are already in power won't do much to try and stop Russian interference because they want to keep their power.

-Teresa

(December 2, 2017 at 1:03 pm)Tres Leches Wrote: I'm glad Flynn was charged but I'm still not convinced Trump will be impeached and convicted. I think he could still serve out 2 terms until January 2025. Even if he made a prime time speech announcing and admitting that he committed a litany of felonies, if Congress won't bring charges and impeach (and I don't think they will), none of it matters.

Sure, Congress could flip to Democratic in 2018. But let's not forget that the same Russians who butted into our 2016 presidential election are 100% certain to butt into the 2018 US Congressional elections if they haven't started to already. And the Republicans who are already in power won't do much to try and stop Russian interference because they want to keep their power.

-Teresa

I disagree, 45 cant keep his mouth shut. All the rest of us have to do is push the fucker hard enough. I do not see him making it to the next election. I do see Nixon once again.

(December 2, 2017 at 12:13 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

(December 2, 2017 at 11:29 am)wallym Wrote: Something I'm not clear on.  If he had told the truth about these things, rather than lying to the FBI, what would he be charged with?  If the only criminal act is perjury, there's no way for it to go up the chain outside of more perjury charges.  Or is there some secondary treason type aspect that is also getting attached at a later date?

He admitted to inappropriate contact with the Russians

Is there a reason you said inappropriate instead of illegal?   I'd take an answer from anyone.  The word illegal has been noticeably absent from a lot of headlines involving Russia.  The implication is that collusion = illegal.  But nobody seems to be saying that explicitly, which makes me wonder.

(December 2, 2017 at 2:16 pm)wallym Wrote:

(December 2, 2017 at 12:13 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: He admitted to inappropriate contact with the Russians

Is there a reason you said inappropriate instead of illegal?   I'd take an answer from anyone.  The word illegal has been noticeably absent from a lot of headlines involving Russia.  The implication is that collusion = illegal.  But nobody seems to be saying that explicitly, which makes me wonder.

It doesn't have to be illegal, shit, the founders would have impeached him just based on his bat shit insane rhetoric. But believe me, with 45's history of screwing over contractors and investors, I have no doubt Mueller is making 45 very nervous.

(December 2, 2017 at 12:13 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

(December 2, 2017 at 11:29 am)wallym Wrote: Something I'm not clear on.  If he had told the truth about these things, rather than lying to the FBI, what would he be charged with?  If the only criminal act is perjury, there's no way for it to go up the chain outside of more perjury charges.  Or is there some secondary treason type aspect that is also getting attached at a later date?

He admitted to inappropriate contact with the Russians

He also said he was directed by senior campaign officials.

There weren't that many people who were "senior" to Flynn.

(December 2, 2017 at 2:46 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(December 2, 2017 at 2:16 pm)wallym Wrote: Is there a reason you said inappropriate instead of illegal?   I'd take an answer from anyone.  The word illegal has been noticeably absent from a lot of headlines involving Russia.  The implication is that collusion = illegal.  But nobody seems to be saying that explicitly, which makes me wonder.

It doesn't have to be illegal, shit, the founders would have impeached him just based on his bat shit insane rhetoric. But believe me, with 45's history of screwing over contractors and investors, I have no doubt Mueller is making 45 very nervous.

I never said it had to be illegal. I just pointed this out .Thou it's very likely in my opinion .

---

(December 2, 2017 at 2:16 pm)wallym Wrote:

(December 2, 2017 at 12:13 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: He admitted to inappropriate contact with the Russians

Is there a reason you said inappropriate instead of illegal?   I'd take an answer from anyone.  The word illegal has been noticeably absent from a lot of headlines involving Russia.  The implication is that collusion = illegal.  But nobody seems to be saying that explicitly, which makes me wonder.

I was simply repeating the terminology used

Alan Dershowitz seemed spectacularly unimpressed with this entire conviction and plea deal. Am I missing something, or is Alan ??