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List of reasons to believe God exists?
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 (December 5, 2017 at 1:41 pm)SteveII Wrote: Sorry. I went back an read your OP carefully. Is this what you want a list of: Oh, no problem. That was a pretty much what I was talking about, and a, b, c, and e have all come up. And with the priority given, assuming I'm guessing what those words mean correctly, origins of existence/universe seems to be the big one that are rooted in something tangible. Because we're fairly confident existence exists. The other things, free will, morals, values, etc..., I think whether or not they exist is debatable. A debate that is strengthened greatly by having the 'natural theology' thing to build off from.  (December 5, 2017 at 1:33 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:(December 5, 2017 at 1:02 pm)wallym Wrote: Do you think it's the gravity of morality maybe? Like don't kill people is more weighty of a topic than pink is the best? Like if our lives depended on picking Pink or Blue as the best color to show to the aliens to save humanity, you'd probably go to bat for pink pretty hard. That's a sloppy analogy, but the gist of what I'm getting at is buried in there I think. If you believe that in our godless Universe that something like rape suddenly becomes "okay", then, please, do NOT stop believing in God!  RE: List of reasons to believe God exists?
December 5, 2017 at 3:11 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2017 at 3:31 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:I don't see why it would be more weighty if it didn't effect me and if human life didn't have intrinsic value. Otherwise, why would I care so much about a woman being raped and then murdered by her fa,mily for being raped on the other side of the globe? I mean, there's empathy so from a purely emotional stand point I would feel sorry for her. But there would be no justifiable, rational reason for me to get really angry at the people who did that to her if I didn't concede that doing so was in fact wrong. But subjective morality people do anyway. (get really angry I mean)Wholly hell that is one fragged up sense of morality .And this is coming from someone who is not a moral subjectivity.And it's almost identical to Tim Kellers failed idea's about morality . https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/12882#rights
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb  (December 4, 2017 at 6:21 pm)Succubus Wrote: What caused that to exist? Divide a circle by its radius and what figure do you get? From memory it is 3.14159362859, yes it does go on for a bit. The laws of physics are immutable. π is the same in Andromeda as it is here. π Is not caused by anything, it is a property of the universe. Just cuz? You might not have gotten the memo, but there's this little thing called the Principle of Sufficient Reason. (December 5, 2017 at 3:22 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:(December 4, 2017 at 6:21 pm)Succubus Wrote: What caused that to exist? Divide a circle by its radius and what figure do you get? From memory it is 3.14159362859, yes it does go on for a bit. The laws of physics are immutable. π is the same in Andromeda as it is here. π Is not caused by anything, it is a property of the universe. The same "sufficient reason(s)" can be made with respect to belief in fairies,  (December 5, 2017 at 2:20 pm)wallym Wrote:(December 5, 2017 at 1:41 pm)SteveII Wrote: Sorry. I went back an read your OP carefully. Is this what you want a list of: Well, regarding (d) there are many Christian philosophers that think this is a very promising line of inquiry. If consciousness is not identical to, but more than, brain function, there are interesting questions about supervenience, emergent properties, immaterial and how that can be in a purely naturalistic framework. Regarding the whole enterprise of natural theology, you mentioned in your opening post "If that domino falls, and some nerd explains the origins of the universe...?" I think people have the impression that natural theology arguments are just waiting around to be disproved by science and assume a trend in that direction. However, I think the opposite is true. Scientific discoveries in the last 100 years have fueled old arguments (for example b and c) and created new ones (like d). RE: List of reasons to believe God exists?
December 5, 2017 at 4:22 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2017 at 4:23 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Strange you think that, since "god" doesn't seem to appear prominently in cosmology or neurobiology........
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(December 5, 2017 at 2:20 pm)Jehanne Wrote:(December 5, 2017 at 1:33 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't see why it would be more weighty if it didn't effect me and if human life didn't have intrinsic value. Otherwise, why would I care so much about a woman being raped and then murdered by her fa,mily for being raped on the other side of the globe? I mean, there's empathy so from a purely emotional stand point I would feel sorry for her. But there would be no justifiable, rational reason for me to get really angry at the people who did that to her if I didn't concede that doing so was in fact wrong. But subjective morality people do anyway. (get really angry I mean) You and I believe we are in a godless Universe, and even despite laws with crushing consequences at the peak of human existence after 200,000 years of progress, the leader of arguably the most powerful country in the world you probably think is a rapist, no? We've got a pedophile about to enter the US congress. That #metoo stuff seems to include just about all the ladies. Doesn't it feel like, practically speaking, sexual assault/rape has been somewhat accepted throughout human history? Sure, you might go to jail for it now. But whatever moral deterrent there is in our godless world, humans seem to frequently be comfortable overlooking that. RE: List of reasons to believe God exists?
December 5, 2017 at 4:25 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2017 at 4:29 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Moral failure is a thing. Not exactly news. Dial the clock back a bit and it's entirely likely that those things wouldn;t even have been seen -as- moral failure....and some people are still undecided on the matter today, here in Murica.
Strange that those people seem to be the divine mandate wing of american politics.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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