How old are you?

(December 11, 2017 at 11:29 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: No,  local thugs, leveraging your local religion,  made you so easily invaded.

Historically, Muslims took down Spain and Constantinople when they were more religious.
Defeat and disasters came during during the illumination period in Europe, when many Muslims wanted to replace the religious model with a European one.

(December 12, 2017 at 12:18 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(December 11, 2017 at 11:29 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: No,  local thugs, leveraging your local religion,  made you so easily invaded.

Historically, Muslims took down Spain and Constantinople when they were more religious.
Defeat and disasters came during during the illumination period in Europe, when many Muslims wanted to replace the religious model with a European one.

You might as well argue that just because stone axes carried you to victory when everyone you faced also only had stone axes, so in the age when everyone else had machine guns and aeroplanes the key to your freedom from conquest and further victory remains more stone axes.

Religion is an effective force when everyone are equally ignorant about reality and mere brutish unquestioning fanaticism religion promotes confers an formidable advantage.  Religion is becames an inveterate source of uncompensarable ignorance and therefore fatal weakness when the other side possesses knowledge about reality sufficient to translate into hard power capable of overwhelming any mere fanaticism.

Islam use to be a source of strength when everyone else were just as ignorant.   Now Islam is but a source of ignorance when everyone else are so knowledgeable as to be able to flick off any faith and Ferber Islam can promote in a struggle.

But such is the rot promoted by Islam in the minds of muslims like you for the sake of the now useless institution of islam, that muslims are blinded to the fact that it is Islam that made them slaves to other wiser man while they imagine themselves to be some favored slaves to  some nonexistent god that would protect them, and are seeking to make themselves more inescapably slaves to the west by being more ferverishly Muslim in their own outlook.

Escaping from Islam will be painful. For a while when devoid the of pain numbing and Appearently purpose giving influence of Islam things will look worse. But with Islam things will never get better. Without islam, after things get worse, you now have the power to make things better through clearer vision and more enlightenely directed efforts.

(December 12, 2017 at 12:36 am)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(December 12, 2017 at 12:18 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Historically, Muslims took down Spain and Constantinople when they were more religious.
Defeat and disasters came during during the illumination period in Europe, when many Muslims wanted to replace the religious model with a European one.

You might as well argue that just because stone axes carried you to victory when everyone you faced also only had stone axes, so in the age when everyone else had machine guns and aeroplanes the key to your freedom from conquest and further victory remains more stone axes.

Religion is an effective force when everyone are equally ignorant about reality and mere brutish unquestioning fanaticism religion promotes confers an formidable advantage.  Religion is becames an inveterate source of uncompensarable ignorance and therefore fatal weakness when the other side possesses knowledge about reality sufficient to translate into hard power capable of overwhelming any mere fanaticism.

Islam use to be a source of strength when everyone else were just as ignorant.   Now Islam is but a source of ignorance when everyone else are so knowledgeable as to be able to flick off any faith and Ferber Islam can promote in a struggle.

But such is the rot promoted by Islam upon muslims for the sake of islam that muslims are blinded to the fact that it is Islam that made them slaves to other actual man while they imagine they are slaves to a nonexistent god.

Equipment differ a lot in warfare.
I can so argue, that the Spanish Conquistadors had the upper hand in every fight with native Americans. That upper hands wasn't due to bravery or even cause; it was due to equipment. An army with stone axes, will face total destruction against rifles and cannons.

It is wrong to accuse all the religious of being ignorant; there is a portion that isn't; and that portion is usually the one responsible for calling and stressing on the advantages of being a follower of the right religion, over the disadvantages caused by following other paths.

Fanaticism is a state of mind; it's a behavior even video game players display, and scientists display; all alike; and each have their own specific danger, some fanatics are a threat to your life, others are a threat to your freedom,..., etc.

What makes a warfare enthusiast, a better reality-understanding philosopher than me? He gained his rank by the power of the gun; if he haven't had scientists capable of inventing an atomic weapons; probably I wouldn't even be here to talk about him/her. The only thing that gave Europe any kind of dominion in the world today, is the mastery of warfare, crowned by the invention of the atomic weapon.

Back in the time of Rome; nobody cared about western Europe; it was "the outland of the Barbarians".

It's not Islam that brought Muslims down. It's the art of war, turning to the art of "ISIS" in their lands.

All religions are ignorant for religion is by nature the pursuit of the ferver in the make belief over the pursuit of actual knowledge through continuous testing and validation.

(December 12, 2017 at 2:24 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: All religions are ignorant for religion is by nature the pursuit of the ferver in the make belief over the pursuit of actual knowledge through continuous testing and validation.

Then how do you explain these verses about education in the Quran?

Quote:Sura 17, The Quran:
( 35 )   And give full measure when you measure, and weigh with an even balance. That is the best [way] and best in result.
( 36 )   And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed, the hearing, the sight and the heart - about all those [one] will be questioned.
( 37 )   And do not walk upon the earth exultantly. Indeed, you will never tear the earth [apart], and you will never reach the mountains in height.
( 38 )   All that - its evil is ever, in the sight of your Lord, detested.

That is one portion about the importance of accuracy, and accuracy requires math. No wonder Muslim scholars were in so many cases, excellent mathematicians.
It is when Muslims forgot these verses, they lost their previous high rank.

Moreover:

Quote:Sura 17, The Quran:
( 85 )   And they ask you, [O Muhammad], about the soul. Say, "The soul is of the affair of my Lord. And mankind have not been given of knowledge except a little."

 Humans know so little. Don't they?

Quote:Sura 28, The Quran:
( 54 )   Those will be given their reward twice for what they patiently endured and [because] they avert evil through good, and from what We have provided them they spend.
( 55 )   And when they hear ill speech, they turn away from it and say, "For us are our deeds, and for you are your deeds. Peace will be upon you; we seek not the ignorant."

I think you are meaning the Church's commands by your post. But Islam is not Christianity. And if other institutions command people to be ignorant so they blindly accept what is thrown at them; the Quran never said that; but instead advocated education, and told people to avoid ignorant people and educate themselves.

How would I balance the scale, if I don't know math?

Don't blindly accept things... well besides islam, blindly accept islam. How do we know islam is true? It says so in the quran and how do we know the quran is true? it says so in islam.

(December 12, 2017 at 3:26 am)SaStrike Wrote: Don't blindly accept things... well besides islam, blindly accept islam. How do we know islam is true? It says so in the quran and how do we know the quran is true? it says so in islam.

I think the dog below is making the same logical fallacy as our friend Atlas.

(December 11, 2017 at 4:45 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(December 11, 2017 at 3:08 am)ignoramus Wrote: Atlas... How can you say or feel that Islam is the underlying core issue here?

Are you subconsciously insulting your country but being very sensitive to defending your god?

To the rest of us non muslims it seems obvious ...

It's not my country.

How is Islam responsible, for the British empire's plans of colonization ? You know, the British are the ones who made this kingdom; supported it with golden pounds and superior weapons as a back stab to the Ottoman empire.

Blaming Islam for the acts of the Wahhabi cult, and the corrupted local thugs chosen by the British to be the  "royalty" is the problem here.
It's even in the interest of the western common man to know this tiny truth.

Atlass33, it is RELIGION itself, all of them, even Christianity and Jews. All three stem from the same claim of the God of Abraham, and ALL THREE claim divine entitlement of land, that is an idea of antiquity, and is unfortunately still today why Israel is a mess. It is not an either or thing for me. The west is hardly perfect and it too is full of right wing nuts, and war mongers, but it still remains that far too much of the east is still stuck in the past by comparison.


I most certainly have a problem with Bibi Nuttyfuckhoo, and I currently think 45 deciding to make things worse does piss me off. But the fact remains humans act on their religious beliefs, for both good or bad, and those beliefs become political and are used by respective leaders, both in the west and in the east. 

If there were no Islam, no Koran, there would be no sub sect interpretation "Wahhabi" , just like if there were no Bible you wouldn't have assholes  on the far right "evangelicals" whom want the end of the world to come in their time. If there was no Hebrew Scripture, you wouldn't have an asshole like Bibi in charge.

Now again, you cannot force any religion out of existence unless you want WW3 or genocide, and most sane humans don't want that. But it isn't all the fault of the west either. I think humans simply don't want to face, on either side, that religion is a horrible way to conduct national, much less global politics.