I had a friend when I was a teenager with a congenital condition that confines her to a wheelchair. One day she was in a public place (I forget wear exactly, but I think she was at a fountain/water feature) when a man walks up to her out of the blue and says 'I bet you're thankful to God that your mother didn't decide to get an abortion'. It wasn't said in a mean tone, he clearly meant it much the same way that someone might say 'isn't it a nice day?'.

This is not normal behavior, but some people are so indoctrinated, so conditioned to approach strangers to share their good news, and so locked in their echo chamber that they don't know how to act in public or what's appropriate to say to people who aren't in their cult. Fortunately, the largish majority (60-70%?) of American theists don't fall into that category; which makes it all the more startling when you run into this sort of behavior.

(December 13, 2017 at 10:32 pm)Little Rik Wrote: Let us not forget one very very very important thing you guys.
Religions DO not speak on behalf of all theists.
Religious fanatics even less.
I guess you guys never thought about that, did you?

Oh, we do. It's just that if we don't talk louder than the worst of your type of people, we won't be heard.

(December 13, 2017 at 1:40 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Amazing what these fuckstains will say to justify the "actions" of their imaginary friends.

Why does that get under your skin?

(December 14, 2017 at 3:23 am)Little Rik Wrote: But an imbecile is an imbecile and you are one.
There is no question about it son.
There is no question also about the fact that nobody will miss you when you will die.

Life can be cruel Min especially for idiots like you.

That's bang out of order, rik. Knock it the fuck off.

(December 13, 2017 at 12:13 pm)purplepurpose Wrote: Creepy guy.

I don't feel satisfied with his answers at all, they seem to be justifying certain behaviour based on power and position - a human trait.

Creepy alright.

---

(December 13, 2017 at 2:13 pm)Chad32 Wrote: It's rather dark that people would think that they are wretched by default, and the mere fact that anything good is happening to them at all is worth thanking and praising their god for. Instead of it being the other way around.And these are the kind of people who think that their god is what gives them meaning and value. How meaningful and valuable is your life when you seem to have no right to it? He can strike you dead at any moment, and that still counts as just and good, regardless of anything you've done up to that point.

It wouldn't be dark if it was true though would it? It would just be a fact that people don't like.


What makes you assume it isn't true anyway?

And we DO have the right to our life, 
what we DON'T have, is the right to hurt someone else, in which case it is perfectly just for God to make us pay for our sins.
But the fact remains that people DON'T pay for their sins at all - no one who has sinned would be alive if that were the case.

The fact that people live though they sin, proves what John the Baptist said about Jesus, "Look at the Lamb which TAKES AWAY the sin of the world."

There is something positive going on for the human race...and people don't get it regardless of their religious standing.

(December 15, 2017 at 8:27 am)Starhunter Wrote:

(December 13, 2017 at 2:13 pm)Chad32 Wrote: It's rather dark that people would think that they are wretched by default, and the mere fact that anything good is happening to them at all is worth thanking and praising their god for. Instead of it being the other way around.And these are the kind of people who think that their god is what gives them meaning and value. How meaningful and valuable is your life when you seem to have no right to it? He can strike you dead at any moment, and that still counts as just and good, regardless of anything you've done up to that point.

It wouldn't be dark if it was true though would it? It would just be a fact that people don't like.


What makes you assume it isn't true anyway?

And we DO have the right to our life, 
what we DON'T have, is the right to hurt someone else, in which case it is perfectly just for God to make us pay for our sins.
But the fact remains that people DON'T pay for their sins at all - no one who has sinned would be alive if that were the case.

The fact that people live though they sin, proves what John the Baptist said about Jesus, "Look at the Lamb which TAKES AWAY the sin of the world."

There is something positive going on for the human race...and people don't get it regardless of their religious standing.

Of course it would still be dark, if it were true. I'm not sure what's darker. The idea that it's true, or the fact that some people push it as true, despite not being able to prove it.

Yes, people have a right to life. It's one of the foundational concepts of society. If we believed otherwise, killing wouldn't be illegal. We pay for wrongdoings all the time. Fines, jail, and such. Some people get away with it, and die peacefully in bed, but that's usually due to power and corruption. Like one guy lording over an entire population, and feeling he has the right to just wipe them out when things go wrong, instead of trying to solve the societal problems that the wrongdoings are a symptom of.

The lamb/god is apparently the one who claimed that the world is sinful in the first place, which really just amounts to "doing things he doesn't like". So the concept of sin is a flimsy one at best. Saving us from himself.

I know there are positive things going on. Often due to moving on from backwards/outdated ideas like this.

Let's hear it for the theists' true god, the Almighty If.

(December 13, 2017 at 10:32 pm)Little Rik Wrote: Let us not forget one very very very important thing you guys.
Religions DO not speak on behalf of all theists.
Religious fanatics even less.
I guess you guys never thought about that, did you?

True, but I am sure you will also agree that the religious fanatics are the most dangerous believers, right?

The title of this thread has the phrase "hardcore believers" after all.

(December 15, 2017 at 10:08 am)Chad32 Wrote: Of course it would still be dark, if it were true. I'm not sure what's darker. The idea that it's true, or the fact that some people push it as true, despite not being able to prove it.

Yes, people have a right to life. It's one of the foundational concepts of society. If we believed otherwise, killing wouldn't be illegal. We pay for wrongdoings all the time. Fines, jail, and such. Some people get away with it, and die peacefully in bed, but that's usually due to power and corruption. Like one guy lording over an entire population, and feeling he has the right to just wipe them out when things go wrong, instead of trying to solve the societal problems that the wrongdoings are a symptom of.

The lamb/god is apparently the one who claimed that the world is sinful in the first place, which really just amounts to "doing things he doesn't like". So the concept of sin is a flimsy one at best. Saving us from himself.

I know there are positive things going on. Often due to moving on from backwards/outdated ideas like this.

Yes, it still would be dark...I agree...but truth isn't always what we want to hear.
But I'll go along with what you are saying for arguments sake...

"Hardcore believers act like" they're from another planet...when was the last time a Christian imposed something unacceptable?

And what kind of things are not acceptable by God, that the world can't seem to live without?

Backwards outdated ideas - can you give a main example?

(December 15, 2017 at 3:12 pm)Starhunter Wrote:

(December 15, 2017 at 10:08 am)Chad32 Wrote: Of course it would still be dark, if it were true. I'm not sure what's darker. The idea that it's true, or the fact that some people push it as true, despite not being able to prove it.

Yes, people have a right to life. It's one of the foundational concepts of society. If we believed otherwise, killing wouldn't be illegal. We pay for wrongdoings all the time. Fines, jail, and such. Some people get away with it, and die peacefully in bed, but that's usually due to power and corruption. Like one guy lording over an entire population, and feeling he has the right to just wipe them out when things go wrong, instead of trying to solve the societal problems that the wrongdoings are a symptom of.

The lamb/god is apparently the one who claimed that the world is sinful in the first place, which really just amounts to "doing things he doesn't like". So the concept of sin is a flimsy one at best. Saving us from himself.

I know there are positive things going on. Often due to moving on from backwards/outdated ideas like this.

Yes, it still would be dark...I agree...but truth isn't always what we want to hear.
But I'll go along with what you are saying for arguments sake...

"Hardcore believers act like" they're from another planet...when was the last time a Christian imposed something unacceptable?

And what kind of things are not acceptable by God, that the world can't seem to live without?

Backwards outdated ideas - can you give a main example?

Slavery. Laws that allow for the persecution of minority groups. Outlawing other religions and belief systems. The history of christianity is filled with wars and blood. Not unlike the old testament. Even Jesus said he comes to bring sword, instead of peace. We don't really have to go too far back to find people preaching christianity while committing atrocities. You can claim they're not true christians, but that doesn't really solve the problem. The fact is, people in power, who believe in the bible, have done many atrocious things.

Equal rights for all seems to be a pretty big example for something, that is not acceptable to your god, that a civilized society needs to function properly.