(December 19, 2017 at 2:57 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(December 19, 2017 at 2:41 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Yes, men do have disadvantages in society. Funnily enough, due to traditional gender role expectations, which feminists are fighting against. Hence why being "very feminist" (as OP says it) is a very good thing to be.

Depends on the feminist. As I said, there are those who don't give a shit about problems men might have. They only care about traditional gender roles as far as it encumbers them. Talk to them about how traditional gender roles make it hard for men to talk about sexual abuse and they couldn't care less. Being "very feminist" is often a very obnoxious thing to be.

Its unfortunate, but I can understand why they would feel this way, even if I dont agree. As a man who never had to experience the disadvantages and deprivation of rights as women have, I can afford to think about the disadvantages both men and women go through in an equal manner. If some women cant, thats their struggle, not mine or feminists in general.

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(December 19, 2017 at 3:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think the issue is that men's rights movements tend to get laughed at or dismissed, while everyone else's is taken much more seriously.

In the documentary there was a huge protest by angry screaming feminists at an MRA meeting. One of them actually pulled the fire alarm and ruined the whole thing.

Oh those MRA guys? No sympathy from me for those ones.

(December 19, 2017 at 3:17 pm)Grandizer Wrote: As a man who never had to experience the disadvantages and deprivation of rights as women have, I can afford to think about the disadvantages both men and women go through in an equal manner. If some women cant, thats their struggle, not mine or feminists in general.

When they make up a large portion of feminists, it's a general problem. Feminism doesn't have a core principle or overtly stated goals. It's just women and men who call themselves feminists, which is why I don't. Without a clearly defined rationale, the movement leaves me wanting. People who are dismissive of someone else's experiences because they believe women have it worse aren't on my side. If we want to be truly equal, rape is a problem-not rape only perpetrated by men with only female victims. Whatever people want to call that, that's me.


CL, go head into the MRA subreddit for awhile or even the incel subreddit. You'll realize there is no side to take. There's a lot of needless hate on both sides of that gender-obsessed coin.

If you are an actual feminist, someone who believes in "equal" rights for women, you by definition must support men's rights. "Equal" means you look at all the rights that one sex has over the other, and vice-versa, and make sure both sexes have the same rights as one another.

I don't think it particularly helps calling oneself a feminist or a MRA, as both terms are gendered which puts a spin towards that gender, even if you don't do it consciously (i.e. feminist groups are going to address more "women are less advantaged" issues than they are "women are more advantaged" issues). Egalitarianism is the way forward.

(December 19, 2017 at 3:26 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(December 19, 2017 at 3:17 pm)Grandizer Wrote: As a man who never had to experience the disadvantages and deprivation of rights as women have, I can afford to think about the disadvantages both men and women go through in an equal manner. If some women cant, thats their struggle, not mine or feminists in general.

When they make up a large portion of feminists, it's a general problem.

I dont think its as large a portion as youre making it out to be.

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(December 19, 2017 at 3:57 pm)Tiberius Wrote: If you are an actual feminist, someone who believes in "equal" rights for women, you by definition must support men's rights. "Equal" means you look at all the rights that one sex has over the other, and vice-versa, and make sure both sexes have the same rights as one another.

I don't think it particularly helps calling oneself a feminist or a MRA, as both terms are gendered which puts a spin towards that gender, even if you don't do it consciously (i.e. feminist groups are going to address more "women are less advantaged" issues than they are "women are more advantaged" issues). Egalitarianism is the way forward.

I have a sister and a mother and have met heaps of women in my life including my partner. I know how easy I have it compared to them.

(December 19, 2017 at 4:33 pm)Grandizer Wrote: I have a sister and a mother and have met heaps of women in my life including my partner. I know how easy I have it compared to them.

Except when it comes to:

Longer prison sentences for the same crime.
Homelessness
Domestic Violence Shelters
Prostate Cancer Awareness
Visitation Rights / Family Court in general

etc.

I get your point, I really do, I just don't think it's particularly helpful. Since when do we have to ignore inequality just because one group of people have more of it than another? There are legitimate inequalities affecting both men and women, and they can both be resolved. There's certainly more work to do for women's rights, but that doesn't mean we need to delay fixing the inequalities that affect men.

I can't speak for every woman out there, but personally for myself, I have never felt overall disadvantaged to men, or like im "Living in a men's world" here in America.

Feminists like Big Red and her followers from the documentary just make me roll my eyes.

If you're a real man conducting yourself with honor, discipline and intelligence, you won't need a movement to protect you. Things will naturally work out in your favor.

(December 19, 2017 at 5:02 pm)alpha male Wrote: If you're a real man conducting yourself with honor, discipline and intelligence, you won't need a movement to protect you. Things will naturally work out in your favor.

Meanwhile...in the real world.

(December 19, 2017 at 4:33 pm)Grandizer Wrote: I dont think its as  large a portion as youre making it out to be.

I'm not "making it out to be" anything. I'm conveying my experience. The majority of feminists in my acquaintance and that I've come across online are insufferably anti-male or diminish the importance of any inequality for men. It's fine if you don't believe that's representative of the whole of feminists, but it is representative of the whole of feminists I have encountered. That's enough to turn me off the movement.

CL, I know that white men have it easier than women in many respects. You're far less likely to do jail time for a similar offense, for example. My stepson's mother never paid her child support, except usually $50 or so whenever we went to court and they told her she had to make a good faith payment. She was in arrears last time I checked so bad that, were she a man, she would have been in prison for years. Whether that should be a jailable offense at all is up for debate, in my opinion, but she got away with a lot more than just that.

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(December 19, 2017 at 5:02 pm)alpha male Wrote: If you're a real man conducting yourself with honor, discipline and intelligence, you won't need a movement to protect you. Things will naturally work out in your favor.

What's a fake man?

Both genders deserve the same rights as each other, with some alterations between the two based on biological and physiologically. Pregnant woman deserve more time off and for other issues involving the female body, and the men who are to be fathers should get a little more time off to spend with their newborn child. As far as pay and insurance is concerned, I'm not an expert, so I'll go off what I know. Should men pay for car insurance and woman pay less, I would have to say no they both genders should pay the same rate. Since being a woman is more expensive from the medical standpoint, health insurance for a male should less then woman's cost. Should men be paid more, I would have to say no to that as well.

If (Female A), and (Male B) are both server technicians fresh out of training they should be payed the same rate and offered the same level of health insurance(factoring in the cost to treat common male, and a common female). Now, if (Female A) has been there longer she deserves more money then (Male B) who is fresh out of training. I do agree with some of the rational minded feminists, men have too much control and needs a female based retrofit in the culture of society's around the world. There is more to fix with the way behave has a species besides gender inequalities.

We should be working together has men and woman to solve the array of problems we face.