(December 21, 2017 at 4:57 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Thank you very much, Hammy. I hadn't really thought of the no true scotsman as being related to the equivocation fallacy, and I appreciate you going over it one more time even though you are tired of doing so. I learned a lot. Where I personally thought you committed the fallacy was here:

(December 21, 2017 at 2:50 pm)Hammy Wrote: It's annoying when the so-called 'extremist feminists' are seen to be feminists when they're clearly something beyond actual feminism.

It would have helped, I think to have specific definition of feminism to work from to begin with. Maybe this whole thread would be in better shape. But, whether or not you committed the no true scotsman fallacy (and I think you made your case that you didn't) wouldn't it be more correct to say they've taken feminism too far than to say that they are not feminists altogether (or "beyond" which is synonymous with "outside the scope of")? I mean, radical feminists are feminists, right?

That's the problem. There is no specific definition of feminism. I think appreciating and embracing a women's femininity is feminist. Many others out there may think the opposite.

(December 21, 2017 at 1:10 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(December 19, 2017 at 6:01 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: And autism.

I've heard that most of the important information for churning out a functionally capable human is contained on the x chromosome.  Your lot has two of those so there is redundancy built into your system.  For men if the info in that one x is faulty we're screwed period.  On the other hand all those baby making and nurturing systems you carry are obviously cancer magnets and place extra demands on your systems.  At least you'll never know the joys trying to pee around a grapefruit sized prostate.(Kind of funny that those fundamentalist types could ever imagine our design was divine.)

Autism is clearly not a single gene disorder. Men with autism being significantly more prevalent than women with autism is likely to be an illusion.

There are multiple genes in the X chromosome.

(December 21, 2017 at 5:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: There are multiple genes in the X chromosome.

Doesnt matter because autism is not linked to only one chromosome or two.

(December 21, 2017 at 12:46 am)Thena323 Wrote: I was "ranting" about folks who refer to egalitarianism as a means of concealing their lack of genuine concern and/or outright hostility towards specific minorities and their claims of oppression. 

I don't take seriously pretty much anyone living in a Western liberal democracy who cries about being oppressed.

(December 21, 2017 at 5:25 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(December 21, 2017 at 12:46 am)Thena323 Wrote: I was "ranting" about folks who refer to egalitarianism as a means of concealing their lack of genuine concern and/or outright hostility towards specific minorities and their claims of oppression. 

I don't take seriously pretty much anyone living in a Western liberal democracy who cries about being oppressed.

Says someone who is lucky enough to be both white and male.

Certain topics usually start well, then go to shit. Meh, ots probably because of the internet. People are usually more upfront in the safety of a keyboard. *shrugs*.

I was going to give my opinion, but since this turned into a shitfest, why bother.

Certainly a thing as of late. As most of the forum, lately.

Better just come here to play Mafia. At least there, people are gentle. Wait, thats not the right word. And moderating.

Carry on.

(December 21, 2017 at 1:08 pm)Tiberius Wrote: ...and this is why MRAs exist. It's all fine and well claiming that feminism is about equal rights for men and women, but by and large, most feminists don't participate in any kind of activism for men's rights. That's fine, I don't expect them to, and certainly there are more problems that women face.

Since most feminists aren't focusing on men's rights issues, the MRA movement sprung up. Of course, then the movements started attacking each other, because reasons. The vast majority of MRAs aren't anti-woman, and the vast majority of feminists aren't anti-man, but the fringe groups are of course, the loudest, and they ruin any kind of dialogue both could have.

That's why egalitarianism is important. It removes the gendered label, it can focus on a plethora of issues including sexism, racism, homo/transphobia, etc.

Actually I'd say that the vast majority of MRA's are anti-woman.  And that's a problem.  Not just for women, but for men.  Because these are the people representing their issues.  And those people aren't even focusing on their fucking issues.  And in fact those MRA's are actually part of the problem.  They talk about shit like how men are being 'feminized'  as if men should be defined specifically by how masculine they are.   They want to reinforce the gender stereotypes that we've always had.  They mistreat men in ways that is disgusting.  Especially gay men.  

Egalitarianism is a nice idea.  But until the world is closer to actually being equal, I will continue considering myself a feminist.

(December 21, 2017 at 4:46 pm)Grandizer Wrote:

(December 21, 2017 at 12:13 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Tib's is the most chill and reasonable person here. That you're attacking his character really takes away any credibility that you might have had.

Lol, here we go with the brown nosing.

I don’t think it’s considered brown nosing when they’re sort of friends, I think. Besides, it’s nit like Tibs is grading her papers or signing her paycheck. She just likes him, and I’m pretty sure he’s friendly with her too.

(December 21, 2017 at 5:33 pm)Grandizer Wrote:

(December 21, 2017 at 5:25 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: I don't take seriously pretty much anyone living in a Western liberal democracy who cries about being oppressed.

Says someone who is lucky enough to be both white and male.

Honestly I don't feel much that way either. Oppressed I mean. I have white skin, but I am a woman and a South American immigrant, if that means anything. Being a woman and South American actually got me a full tuition scholarship to college, which I wouldn't have got if I were a white dude. My husband certainly didn't get any scholarships and he studied much harder and did a hell of a lot better than I did in high school. We just now finished paying off his college debt.

I'm careful to speak for other people's experiences, but I looked up the definition of oppression and came up with this:

1. prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control.

2. the state of being subject to unjust treatment or control.

3. mental pressure or distress.

Synonyms: : persecution, abuse, maltreatment, ill-treatment, tyranny, despotism, repression, suppression, subjection, subjugation.

Are entire groups of people seriously being oppressed by our society? How so? I get that we all have our set of disadvantages and struggles, some more than others, but perhaps the word oppression is being tossed around a bit too lightly. I could be wrong though, as I said. I just hear people say that american women are opressed and I'm like "hmm.. well, I don't feel that way..."

---

(December 21, 2017 at 5:57 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(December 21, 2017 at 4:46 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Lol, here we go with the brown nosing.

I don’t think it’s considered brown nosing when they’re sort of friends, I think. Besides, it’s nit like Tibs is grading her papers or signing her paycheck. She just likes him, and I’m pretty sure he’s friendly with her too.

I do like him, but I would have defended anyone who was being unfairly characterized. And he certainly was. Alt right sympathizer??? I mean, come on...