(January 5, 2018 at 9:18 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Christian simply means that you believe Jesus is the son of God who lived as a human among us and died and resurrected for us.

... anything beyond that just depends on denomination.

As for the New Testament stuff, very very few Christian denominations follow a completely literal interpretation of every single thing in the bible. Even New Testament. Christianity is not based on a word for word literal interpretation of every single thing written in the bible.

Yeah, the OP is trying to accuse us of not being True Christians which is ironic given that we get accused of the No true Scotsman fallacy regularly. And yet here we are being accused of being Not True Christians. And all those atheists that piled on? Yeah, they're just as bad.

(January 5, 2018 at 9:09 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(January 5, 2018 at 9:18 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Christian simply means that you believe Jesus is the son of God who lived as a human among us and died and resurrected for us.

... anything beyond that just depends on denomination.

As for the New Testament stuff, very very few Christian denominations follow a completely literal interpretation of every single thing in the bible. Even New Testament. Christianity is not based on a word for word literal interpretation of every single thing written in the bible.

Yeah, the OP is trying to accuse us of not being True Christians which is ironic given that we get accused of the No true Scotsman fallacy regularly. And yet here we are being accused of being Not True Christians. And all those atheists that piled on? Yeah, they're just as bad.

I'm simply saying the only type of christians are the cafeteria christians. Is that so hard to grasp?

(January 5, 2018 at 6:18 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(January 5, 2018 at 1:39 am)Godscreated Wrote: Christians are people who know they need Jesus and what He has offered and then accepts Him and the gift. After that we try to live the best we know how for Him, not for others. When we live for Him others become the beneficiaries of our relationship with Christ. I know the Christians here will understand this and the atheist will scoff and go on living a life that is hell bound. 

GC

Very christian of you.

 Well at least you recognize I'm a Christian, and as I predicted scoffing would go on. Scoff at the truth is just that, meaning you do not care about truth.

GC

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(January 5, 2018 at 11:19 am)Mermaid Wrote:

(January 5, 2018 at 1:39 am)Godscreated Wrote: Christians are people who know they need Jesus and what He has offered and then accepts Him and the gift. After that we try to live the best we know how for Him, not for others. When we live for Him others become the beneficiaries of our relationship with Christ. I know the Christians here will understand this and the atheist will scoff and go on living a life that is hell bound. 

GC

That's kinda how I see it. Thanks for telling me I am going to Hell though. People love when you say that to them.

 Kinda' see what how? As far as telling you're going to hell was not what I did. I said those who continue to live without Christ will and those who receive Christ into their lives won't. The choice is yours and all I did was show what happens to those who choose against Christ. Would you rather I lied to you, you do understand that would not be a Christian thing to do right. I doubt anyone likes hearing that I didn't but then I didn't try to deny the truth for my entire life.

GC

(January 5, 2018 at 9:25 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(January 5, 2018 at 9:09 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Yeah, the OP is trying to accuse us of not being True Christians which is ironic given that we get accused of the No true Scotsman fallacy regularly. And yet here we are being accused of being Not True Christians. And all those atheists that piled on? Yeah, they're just as bad.

I'm simply saying the only type of christians are the cafeteria christians. Is that so hard to grasp?

It is when you refuse, when asked directly, to define what according to you makes someone a true Christian. All you did is make a vague appeal to following the NT perfectly, whatever that means.

(January 6, 2018 at 5:49 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(January 5, 2018 at 9:25 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I'm simply saying the only type of christians are the cafeteria christians. Is that so hard to grasp?

It is when you refuse, when asked directly, to define what according to you makes someone a true Christian. All you did is make a vague appeal to following the NT perfectly,  whatever that means.

Did you read the OP?

(January 6, 2018 at 12:36 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(January 5, 2018 at 6:18 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Very christian of you.

 Well at least you recognize I'm a Christian, and as I predicted scoffing would go on. Scoff at the truth is just that, meaning you do not care about truth.

GC

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(January 5, 2018 at 11:19 am)Mermaid Wrote: That's kinda how I see it. Thanks for telling me I am going to Hell though. People love when you say that to them.

 Kinda' see what how? As far as telling you're going to hell was not what I did. I said those who continue to live without Christ will and those who receive Christ into their lives won't. The choice is yours and all I did was show what happens to those who choose against Christ. Would you rather I lied to you, you do understand that would not be a Christian thing to do right. I doubt anyone likes hearing that I didn't but then I didn't try to deny the truth for my entire life.

GC

You are telling me you didn't say I was hellbound? 

You think this is the truth, that's great. I think it's preposterous and I do not think it's the truth. And I think you're a wanker for asserting that you know more than I do about how the universe works. Your "truth". 

(January 6, 2018 at 12:36 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(January 5, 2018 at 6:18 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Very christian of you.

 Well at least you recognize I'm a Christian, and as I predicted scoffing would go on. Scoff at the truth is just that, meaning you do not care about truth.

GC

---

Yep, you're another cafeteria christian. Nothing to be proud of.

(January 5, 2018 at 9:09 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(January 5, 2018 at 9:18 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Christian simply means that you believe Jesus is the son of God who lived as a human among us and died and resurrected for us.

... anything beyond that just depends on denomination.

As for the New Testament stuff, very very few Christian denominations follow a completely literal interpretation of every single thing in the bible. Even New Testament. Christianity is not based on a word for word literal interpretation of every single thing written in the bible.

Yeah, the OP is trying to accuse us of not being True Christians which is ironic given that we get accused of the No true Scotsman fallacy regularly. And yet here we are being accused of being Not True Christians. And all those atheists that piled on? Yeah, they're just as bad.

My view is perhaps more nuanced than what I let on with my earlier comments. I didn't accuse *you* (or CL or anyone else) of not being a Christian. If it makes you feel any better, I disagree with the OP's assertion that not one Christian can be found anywhere. In fact, they're all over the place.

I get the impression *you* are someone who takes the commandments in the NT seriously. 

BTW, that's my personal way of discerning Christians from non-Christians. One doesn't have to follow it to the letter, but one ought to take the NT seriously even when it is inconvenient to do so. I don't consider my definition much different than CL's though (and I'll explain why below). By my definition, you are still a Christian even if you fail in every attempt to live up to the commandments in the NT--as long as you take them seriously.

Believe it or not, I've known Christians in my life. Like 90% of my friends are Christians. 

But, when push comes to shove, most of my friends wouldn't ask WWJD? (sometimes because they have good sense). In their minds, Christianity isn't a commitment. "Its a belief that Jesus is my lord and savior." 

This kind of thinking is what I call "Jesus Club" and, yes, I differentiate it from authentic Christian belief. The thing is, most religious establishments really push this "Jesus Club" nonsense because it gets asses in the pews, dollar bills on the collection plate, and more votes for whatever rapist de jour is on the Republican ticket. When you boil it down plainly to "I just believe Jesus is God" you divorce the religion from the commitments that correspond to that belief.

Let's look at CL's definition: "Christian simply means that you believe Jesus is the son of God who lived as a human among us and died and resurrected for us."

If someone really thinks that is true, then they ought to be inclined to behave as the meek but righteous light-givers Jesus describes in the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus offers tough imperatives (when a man strikes you, offer the other cheek etc.), and I don't fault any individual for not living up to them. 

People who go around beating their chests chanting "Ra Ra! My clan over your clan! Poor people are deadbeats! Fuck the gays and other outcasts! Deport foreigners because they're taking what's ours!" are not followers of the man who preached the Sermon on the Mount and told the parable of the Good Samaritan.

I'm not boiling this down to political views, I'm just saying-- beliefs are accompanied by corresponding actions. If I have a belief that it's going to rain today, that belief might prompt the corresponding action of me bringing my umbrella along. Similarly, if a Christian has the belief that Jesus is Lord and he will reward them according to their deeds, this ought to prompt corresponding actions. But for sooooooooo many Christians it doesn't. It never has, and it never will. To sooooooo many Christians its "I told Pastor Bill that I love Jesus now fuck off and let me get what's mine." Excuse me, but that's not Christian belief.

To me these so-called Christians are atheists. I'm just more honest about my atheism. To return to the OP, yes, I have met real Christians-- plenty of them. But I've met enough false ones to conclude that one's simply calling oneself a Christian doesn't mean shit.

I would be out of line bringing this up if "Christians" didn't so often tie themselves to their own purity and idealism in order to hoist themselves into demagoguery. The fact is, I have a great amount of respect for a person who bears the yoke of forbearance espoused by Christ in the New Testament. I try to comport myself in a similar way but for different reasons. Regardless of the fact that I disagree with them about the existence of their God, anyone who is motivated to help others has earned my admiration. Believing in something one thing, striving to attain the ideals of that belief is another. Hence why (IMO) some people are true Christians, and others are not.

(January 5, 2018 at 9:25 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(January 5, 2018 at 9:09 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Yeah, the OP is trying to accuse us of not being True Christians which is ironic given that we get accused of the No true Scotsman fallacy regularly. And yet here we are being accused of being Not True Christians. And all those atheists that piled on? Yeah, they're just as bad.

I'm simply saying the only type of christians are the cafeteria christians. Is that so hard to grasp?

If you have something specific in regards to me, seriously let me know.  (although I by no means, think that I am perfect, or think that the New Testament requires it).

Keep in mind, however, that even if we disagree, that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm ignoring something.  We have to look at things within context, which includes context in the rest of Scripture.  Also, if you come to me with something, you need to be honestly reading and wanting to understand the intentions of the author, not proof texting or using the text as a rhetorical weapon (use the principle of charity).  You may also note, that I think that a rigid atheistic fundyism is just as bad if not worse than rigid Christian fundyism.  I'm not into artificial rules, that you wouldn't apply to other things.

(January 6, 2018 at 4:58 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(January 5, 2018 at 9:25 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I'm simply saying the only type of christians are the cafeteria christians. Is that so hard to grasp?

If you have something specific in regards to me, seriously let me know.  (although I by no means, think that I am perfect, or think that the New Testament requires it).

Keep in mind, however, that even if we disagree, that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm ignoring something.  We have to look at things within context, which includes context in the rest of Scripture.  Also, if you come to me with something, you need to be honestly reading and wanting to understand the intentions of the author, not proof texting or using the text as a rhetorical weapon (use the principle of charity).  You may also note, that I think that a rigid atheistic fundyism is just as bad if not worse than rigid Christian fundyism.  I'm not into artificial rules, that you wouldn't apply to other things.

It's not hard. Do you know ANYBODY who lives by ALL the rules set down in the NT? I have never met such a person and don't believe they exist. As for  you personally, I really don't care.