(January 9, 2018 at 2:55 pm)notimportant1234 Wrote: This may be an ultimatum or may be the salvation for those who can't manage to do good works. From what I read all sins are equal in the eyes of God soo that means not believing beeing at the same level with any other sin. If Jesus died for our sins that includes not believing in him.

We puny, insignificant creatures have the ability to differentiate between the severity of crimes. Jaywalking isn't the same as robbery, which isn't the same as murder, for example. They all come with different penalties associated with them because the amount of harm done is different in each case.

To have unbelief - which hurts no one (and, really, one would think that the purportedly most powerful being in existence could shrug off the slights and insults of far, far, far more inferior creatures) - as bad as something where actual harm is done is asinine.

But, again, the very notion of sin is idiotic.

(January 9, 2018 at 12:51 pm)Die Atheistin Wrote:

(January 9, 2018 at 10:34 am)Godscreated Wrote:   God doesn't need anything, if you want to be saved you will have to ask. Some suffering is necessary and some we bring on ourselves. Instead of accepting responsibility for your actions and the results of those actions you want to blame God. You can never interfere with God's plan, he will not allow it. Of coarse He knew Adam and Eve would disobey Him and that sin would destroy mankind if He did not do something about it. We are not pawns in a game, you are evidence of that, you have decided that your rejection of God is an acceptable risk and are willing to suffer eternally if you are wrong.

GC

So God loves me, yet if I don't ask for forgiveness for my sins, one of which I didn't commit, He will send me to Hell?

First you have to accept Jesus as you savior and Lord, then ask for forgiveness. What son do you believe you haven't committed.
 

DA Wrote:You might reply that I'm sending myself to Hell, no I'm not. He's the one who invented Hell and commaded for all sinners to go there. I can't say that someone being arrested for commiting a crime arrested themselves.

You are sending yourself to hell, you have a choice to live with the God of the universe forever, the decision is yours and yours alone. God did not invent hell from the eternal past God has known the for need of hell.
 

DA Wrote:You think it's fair that all humanity was blamed for a mistake two humans made? Todays human justice doesn't see it that way. And why is knowing the difference between wrong and right bad? Doesn't this mean Adam and Eve were amoral?

  

They were blamed for the first sin because this allowed sin into the world. We have to suffer the consequences of that disobedience. It doesn't matter what today's humans think or believe, what matter is what God says, He is in total control it is His universe and He can do with it as He sees fit. The only say you have in the matter is saying yes to Jesus. The tree was The tree of knowledge of good and evil, not what's right or wrong. They knew the difference between right and wrong with only one commandment to keep. So you see there's a huge difference in saying right and wrong vs good and evil.
 

DA Wrote:I think that the first step of doing the right thing is knowing the difference between good and bad.

This is easy, wrong is disobedience of God's will and right is doing the will of God obediently.

DA Wrote:If God is all-knowing this means He knows the future as well. If He knows exactly what is going to happen is He able to change it?

No He can't change it, that would interfere with your free choice between heaven and hell. God has already lived and continually does live the future.

DA Wrote:If he is able, and the future takes place exactly as He commands, doesn't this mean that our actions take place exactly as He commands as well? You claim we have free will, so He doesn't interfere with that. If he isn't able to, this means he isn't all powerfull.

He can't change the future so the rest of your posit has no bearing on the conversation.

DA Wrote:If he is able but not willing then there is power He doesn't use to prevent evil. I see a paradox here. http://en.atheismfacts.org/epicurean-paradox.html
And I don't blame God, I don't believe in Him. I blame the people who invented and used Him for their personal benefit.

What personal benefit? God will not prevent all evil, He allowed a great evil to come upon the Son and why because He loves you, it's simple. God doesn't care about epicurean-paradox or any other man made thoughts to explain Him away. By the way you will see the power of our almighty God one of these days and I hope it's not to late for you. But, it is your decision and ultimately you will be to blame for your own sin as Adam and Eve were blamed for theirs.

GC

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(January 9, 2018 at 12:23 pm)Grandizer Wrote:

(January 9, 2018 at 10:34 am)Godscreated Wrote: Your the one who says He doesn't make sense and your the one that claims He doesn't exist, so nothings changed and if you call this little bit an attempt to prove he doesn't then you have grandly failed. Try again.

GC

Oh, man, the irony. Yes, exactly, man, exactly.

You call that a try, I say it's pitiful.

GC

The creator of hell is automatically responsible for all suffering that may occur there -- 100%, in perpetuity. It's ludicrous to blame those hapless mortal "sinners" for the suffering inflicted upon them by a more powerful being.

(January 10, 2018 at 1:19 am)Astreja Wrote: The creator of hell is automatically responsible for all suffering that may occur there -- 100%, in perpetuity.  It's  ludicrous to blame those hapless mortal "sinners" for the suffering inflicted upon them by a more powerful being.

This is one of the many parts that boggles my mind.

If the Christian god created everything, that means the Christian god created sin. And even if you think that, despite this creature's porported omniscience, free will is in play, presumably this entity has the ability to extrapolate from past data. So, that means that even if god doesn't know which exact individuals are destined for hell before they get there, he knows that every year he's creating millions of new souls that are destined for that place.

And we're supposed to believe this is the work of a perfect creature. Specifically, a perfectly good and moral one.

How can so many people not grasp the utter ridiculousness of it all? The entire endeavor reveals itself to be farcical if one thinks about it for even a couple of seconds.

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: By the way you will see the power of our almighty God one of these days and I hope it's not to late for you. 

GC

Several people have died as atheists, you know. Without seeing the power of your almighty god. So you can't say this with surety.

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: First you have to accept Jesus as you savior and Lord,

Sorry, I could not morally accept a monster who advocates murder, genocide, rape, incest, human sacrifice, slavery and so forth as any kind of authority on anything.

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: then ask for forgiveness.

From whom and for what?

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: What son do you believe you haven't committed.

I have committed no sons, but I have committed two daughters. Does that count?
 

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: They were blamed for the first sin because this allowed sin into the world. We have to suffer the consequences of that disobedience. It doesn't matter what today's humans think or believe, what matter is what God says, He is in total control it is His universe and He can do with it as He sees fit. The only say you have in the matter is saying yes to Jesus. The tree was The tree of knowledge of good and evil, not what's right or wrong. They knew the difference between right and wrong with only one commandment to keep. So you see there's a huge difference in saying right and wrong vs good and evil.

Except that your god set it all up purposefully. Your god put both trees in the garden of eden and put the serpent in there also. This is called "entrapment".

Furthermore, neither Adam nor Eve had the foggiest clue that it would be in any way wrong to eat from the tree of knowledge until after they had done so.

Furthermore, your god pooped his panties and paniced when they did.

Furthermore, none of this ever happened anyway. No god, no eden, no trees, no talking snake, no Adam, no Eve. None of it.

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: This is easy, wrong is disobedience of God's will and right is doing the will of God obediently.

How many slaves do you own? Owning slaves is not only your god's will he/she/it/housecat even provides a user manual in the bible.

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: No He can't change it, that would interfere with your free choice between heaven and hell. God has already lived and continually does live the future.

Evidence?

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: He can't change the future so the rest of your posit has no bearing on the conversation.

Your god is thus not omnipotent. What a strangely weak god you have.

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: What personal benefit? God will not prevent all evil,

And you reinforce your weak god.

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: He allowed a great evil to come upon the Son

Nope. The son had a bad weekend. Nothing more.

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: and why because He loves you, it's simple.

As described, your god wants nothing but mindless slaves.

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: God doesn't care about epicurean-paradox or any other man made thoughts to explain Him away.

Yet in contrast, your god needs apologists to explain him/her/it/housecat into existence.

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: By the way you will see the power of our almighty God one of these days and I hope it's not to late for you.

When? 2,000 years of threatening such a thing yet it has never happened and never will.

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: But, it is your decision and ultimately you will be to blame for your own sin as Adam and Eve were blamed for theirs.

Yes. If your god actually existed, hell would be the preferred option. Who wants to spend eternity worshiping a monster?

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(January 9, 2018 at 12:23 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Oh, man, the irony. Yes, exactly, man, exactly.

You call that a try, I say it's pitiful.

GC

So is your mindless droning. How many people from here have you converted to the faith yet?

(January 10, 2018 at 4:45 am)Grandizer Wrote:

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: You call that a try, I say it's pitiful.

GC

So is your mindless droning. How many people from here have you converted to the faith yet?

Interesting that GC would claim that god gave him a mind of his own which he then refuses to use.

Quote:First you have to accept Jesus as you savior and Lord, then ask for forgiveness. What son do you believe you haven't committed.

Forgot to mention that no matter how good of a person you are, if you don't pray to Jesus he will torture you. This doesn't sound like a dictator at all.

Quote:You are sending yourself to hell, you have a choice to live with the God of the universe forever, the decision is yours and yours alone. God did not invent hell from the eternal past God has known the for need of hell.

So criminals are arresting themselves, they have the choice to not break the law. DarkMatter2525 made a video on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaJgLBoB_Pw.

Quote:They were blamed for the first sin because this allowed sin into the world. We have to suffer the consequences of that disobedience. It doesn't matter what today's humans think or believe, what matter is what God says, He is in total control it is His universe and He can do with it as He sees fit. The only say you have in the matter is saying yes to Jesus. The tree was The tree of knowledge of good and evil, not what's right or wrong. They knew the difference between right and wrong with only one commandment to keep. So you see there's a huge difference in saying right and wrong vs good and evil.

If it doesn't matter what humans think why did God give us the ability to think?

Quote:This is easy, wrong is disobedience of God's will and right is doing the will of God obediently.

So it means you have to do as you're taught without thinking for yoursel.

Quote:No He can't change it, that would interfere with your free choice between heaven and hell. God has already lived and continually does live the future.

So he's not all-powerfull.

Quote:What personal benefit? God will not prevent all evil, He allowed a great evil to come upon the Son and why because He loves you, it's simple. God doesn't care about epicurean-paradox or any other man made thoughts to explain Him away. By the way you will see the power of our almighty God one of these days and I hope it's not to late for you. But, it is your decision and ultimately you will be to blame for your own sin as Adam and Eve were blamed for theirs.

So God doesn't care about what humans think about Him? And just because He sees things different it doesn't mean that He's right.

(January 10, 2018 at 4:45 am)Grandizer Wrote:

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: You call that a try, I say it's pitiful.

GC

So is your mindless droning. How many people from here have you converted to the faith yet?

 I do not know people tend to leave and not come back and they may have accepted Christ into their lives. I'm here for the ones who just visit, many more of them. By the way I can't convert anyone, that is up to the individual and the Grace of God.

GC

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(January 10, 2018 at 1:56 am)DodosAreDead Wrote:

(January 10, 2018 at 12:27 am)Godscreated Wrote: By the way you will see the power of our almighty God one of these days and I hope it's not to late for you. 

GC

Several people have died as atheists, you know. Without seeing the power of your almighty god. So you can't say this with surety.

 More than several and when judgment comes they will see the power of God and all the other atheist who have yet to die will see His power, too. Yes I can say it for certainty because through the scriptures I know how things be in the end.

GC