It's strange how people will justify things like this.  "What, was he supposed to read her mind?!  She should have made it clear she didn't want to have sex with him!"

You're assuming, among many things, that in the moment she felt capable and safe doing that.  If she were too drunk to consent, would you say "Not his fault!  He didn't know she was too drunk to consent!"  I'd certainly hope not (though I imagine the more despicable among you would)  Or if she were underage, and she didn't say "No", you wouldn't say "Well, she could've said no!"  "It's not sexual assault if she didn't fight back!" is essentially the argument.  And it's one that doesn't really cut it.

And of course the Christians go the "SEXUAL MORALITY" route.  Which is nothing more than victim blaming with lipstick on it to try to make it more appealing.  Of course it's nothing more than them exploiting the opportunity to push their values on everyone else, as if their values are perfect and the world would just be dandy if everyone agreed with them. 

I think it's sad that people are attacking her over this.

Sad in the same way it’s sad that the public destroys a man in the court of public opinion before all the facts are out? She’s not being attacked. Her behavior is being analyzed alongside his and both are found wanting.

Uh my sexual morality suggestion was aimed much more towards Aziz than it was towards Grace. He's the one who was being disrespecteful of her and pressuring her. He's the one who wanted to have a casual hook up/one night stand, not her.

Don't see how my post about promoting sex as a language of self giving love and commitment (oh the horror) in any way blames the person who did not want to have casual sex. That suggestion was much more for him.

(January 17, 2018 at 2:11 am)Shell B Wrote:  and both are found wanting.

-and it's due to this that he's being roasted.  I can't see how this could really be called unfair.  If an entertainer damages their brand it's not surprising or unfair in the least when their earning potential dips. It would be unfair if he were sent to prison...but having to get a new job or find some other capacity to profit off of your industry after wrecking something important to your profitability is just life.

If people found out I rubbed my grundle on watermelons in my free time..it wouldn't be a crime..and maybe I never rub my grundle on watermelons I intend to sell, and maybe some of the melons are super into it......but they -will- stop buying my melons. Boo hoo, woe is me...for rubbing my grundle on melons? No, ofc not, and so I give no shits for creepers who get caught creeping...even if they get caught creeping with a super slutty girl who makes poor decisions.

(January 16, 2018 at 3:40 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I do feel sorry for him because I get the sense that he genuinely thought everything that happened was normal.

Given her objections, that sense of normalcy you ascribe to him would appear to be either disingenuous or terribly narcissistic and unempathetic.

That's the real chestnut for me.  There's no denial of the events, merely the conjecture that everything seemed like it was going great.  His genuine misapprehension ranks up there for the most tragic part of the story. It seemed normal and fun, to him, lol. The other bit, about taking time to reflect on her experience of the event..I wonder what his takeaway was. Is this something he plans to do, again, with the next girl? Has he weighed it all, found himself clear, and is looking for another girl to give the claw to? I highly doubt that a person who really is so genuinely tone deaf does something like this as a one off. How could he have stopped himself, being oblivious?

-and what to we tell the next girl if she comes out with a similar story? "Well, you must have known he was a creepy motherfucker?" Responsibility, folks.

/sadface.

(January 16, 2018 at 4:31 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I just think he's a creeper, on the basis of the narrative.  I didn't see any denials of the particulars of the event..only the notion that everything "seemed fine" to Ansari.

Everything was obviously not fine or going well.

That's the thing -- being so unaware of someone else's feelings in such a personal moment is really one of the hallmarks of creepy: where your desires are so strong you have no understanding how they might affect another person at all.

It's a terribly childish outlook, that need for immediate self-gratification no matter how it might affect anyone else in the room, and while he may not have broken a single law, he sure as hell broke a social more.

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(January 16, 2018 at 5:52 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(January 16, 2018 at 5:46 pm)SaStrike Wrote: Pretty sure if you can give a bj "against your will" you can sign a form "against your will" or "under pressure". Consent forms will change nothing. Shit will still happen.

I agree.

Maybe we should try getting to the root of the problem? Promote sexual morality and respect for self and others. Discourage hook up culture. Discourage porn use. Discourage men and women using each other in bed...

Promote the radical idea that sex is a language of self giving love and commitment.

Now there's a thought.

Call me crazy, but I'd thnk that the root of the problem is disrespecting the feelings of another human, in this case.

All the rest of that is your personal agenda, seems to me.

Then, ofc, there's the classic notpology.  "I'm sorry she wasn't having as much fun as I was". We'll never know what his private response to her was..but I hope it was good. Imagine trying to watch toy story with your kids after that one......

"Disrespecting feelings" goes along with all that.

Not sure about "agenda." It is my opinion.

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(January 17, 2018 at 2:46 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(January 16, 2018 at 3:40 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I do feel sorry for him because I get the sense that he genuinely thought everything that happened was normal.

Given her objections, that sense of normalcy you ascribe to him would appear to be either disingenuous or terribly narcissistic and unempathetic.

Like I said on the part you cut out. It is not at all a good normal.

(January 17, 2018 at 2:49 am)Khemikal Wrote: That's the real chestnut for me.  There's no denial of the events, merely the conjecture that everything seemed like it was going great.  His genuine misapprehension ranks up there for the most tragic part of the story.  It seemed normal and fun, to him, lol.   The other bit, about taking time to reflect on her experience of the event..I wonder what his takeaway was.  Is this something he plans to do, again, with the next girl?  Has he weighed it all, found himself clear, and is looking for another girl to give the claw to?  I highly doubt that a person who really is so genuinely tone deaf does something like this as a one off.  How could he have stopped himself, being oblivious?  

-and what to we tell the next girl if she comes out with a similar story?  "Well, you must have known he was a creepy motherfucker?"  Responsibility, folks.

/sadface.

When I was fourteen or so, I sure had to analyze my failures with the gals, and lord knows they were many (and most likely hilarious in hindsight), and figure out what I did wrong. I still didn't have any issue with understanding "I'm uncomfortable" as meaning "no", and there I was, a stupid teenager with pimples and KISS posters on my wall.

How old's this guy? How many blocks has he been around? Do you really need to be told that if she's moving away from you that's not a good sign?

And yeah, he needs to shitcan that "claw" move, at least until the second or third date at Baskin-Robbins when he can at least pretend to be fishing out some pecan praline stuck in her teeth. Sheesh.

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(January 17, 2018 at 3:13 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: "Disrespecting feelings" goes along with all that.

Not sure about "agenda." It is my opinion.

Pay no attention to the username behind the post.