(February 8, 2018 at 2:18 am)pool the matey Wrote: I don't really understand what this autism thing is tbf because I was kind of an introvert, shy, kind of guy that  got bullied but after some time I did some self reflection and figured out where I was lacking and rectified it. My doubt is, since you know all your problems so clearly, can't you do the same thing? Or is it like mentally impossible for you or do you lack motivation?

You were kind of shy and an introvert, was it anything more than that? Autism spectrum disorder is not primarily an anxiety disorder or verbal communication disorder. It is a pervasive [neuro]developmental disorder that doesn't just simply go away with life experience and opportunity to thrive in society, and it manifests in different ways in people with autism (just as there are all sorts of types [personality, intellectual, etc.] among neurotypical people). Expecting people with autism to rectify their struggles with this condition is like expecting a man with damaged legs who can't walk as a result to just get up and walk, no problem. It doesn't work that way, and if that had been the case, I would not have been still struggling with socialization, considering I've put in a lot of time and effort into becoming a better person socially. So perhaps not mentally impossible, but it's definitely extremely challenging for people like me to stop having this condition.

FTR, one need not be an introvert or shy to be diagnosable with autism. There is such a thing as an extroverted person with autism, believe it or not.

Also, if indeed you do have autism, then perhaps you're of the really high functioning type whose condition isn't as bad as mine (high functioning though I may be). Or you're like my brothers, who used to be really shy when they were younger but were still nevertheless neurotypical. I don't know you from Adam, but anything is possible.

(February 7, 2018 at 7:19 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Yes, I've been accused of doing that by people who know me IRL. Nobody wants to hear a guy incessantly analyze the most trivial matters in life, so they've either bluntly told me to shut up (usually family, lol) or they'll change the subject and move on to something else, which irks me even more (because the urge to analyze is still there and it's itching so badly).

Fuck this sounds like my life story lol.

Quote: My partner, on the other hand, she just asks for a hug ... that quiets me down for some reason.

Awww she sounds really nice.

Do you struggle in group conversations and are better at one on ones? I sure as hell do. In a group I'm either the only one who isn't talking and has no idea when it's his turn to speak... or I'm the only one talking and I'm feeling really anxious worrying if I'm talking too much and need to shut the fuck up and worrying if I'm making too many jokes. And then I make one and no one laughs. Etc. Lol.

Most of the time I just spend the entire time quiet but thinking about some joke I want to make but never getting around to making it and never feeling like I have any spot where I can jump in and make it.

Quote:If you get the diagnosis, how will that make you feel? And if it turns out you don't?

To be honest for a long while I've felt like I won't feel any different either way.... but more lately I'm really hoping I get the diagnosis (if and only if I really do have Asperger's or high functioning autism of course).

The reason why I'm hoping I do is I'm just so tired of struggling all my life with things and not knowing why. So to just have some kind of explanation and possible support, and hell, maybe even make some friends (outside the internet I don't have any friends) because I can join autism and Aspie groups, etc.... it will just make my life so much easier.

If it turns out I don't have Asperger's or high functioning autism... the only plus side is that's one more thing ruled out that I don't have. It's back to square one. Because there definitely has to be some explanation for my struggles otherwise I'm going to spend my whole life where the doctors just keep telling me that I "definitely have mental problems that are very real" even if they have no idea what causes them "just because we don't have a label for your condition doesn't mean it doesn't exist".... "you have mental health problems but not a mental health condition". "You have a mental health condition but not a mental illness." "Maybe you have a condition that is actually unique to you and no one else has". "I think that telling someone that they have a personality disorder makes them feel like there's something wrong with themselves as a person so I prefer not to use personality disorder labels."

These are all things that have been said to me by professionals. GPs and psychs, mind you. None of them know anything about autism. My psych actually said that he knew nothing about it.

I've had both of my assessments already at this point. By autism specialists. The screening assessment and the main assessment. Now I'm just waiting on my mom's assessment with them as they need information about my childhood from her. And she's the only person who can really give that (haven't seen my dad since 2006, don't want to).

So overall, I just want the searching for the explanation and diagnosis for my condition to end, to be honest. I don't want to be told all my life by the doctors that I have very real problems and struggles but no diagnosis for them and maybe I have some condition completely unique to me. I can't deal with that... it makes me feel wayyyyyyy too alone.

I like unique, but not that kind of unique. I'll be very happy if it turns out I have Asperger's and I'm not just someone with some condition no one else has.

My psychiatrist, who as I said, says he knows nothing about autism, has said that after 7 years of being diagnosed with bipolar it was definitely a misdiagnosis and he doesn't like to use the term "nervous breakdown" but he thinks that's definitely what I had 3 times regardless of the fact he can't find a diagnosis or explanation for why I had those breakdowns. He says that I am far more sensitive to stress than the average person but unfortunately there's no such thing as acutely-sensitive-to-stress-syndrome.

Not long ago I told a mental health support worker or social worker (something like that, I forget her exact job title) about this.... and when I said "But he says that unfortunately there's no such thing as acutely-sensitive-to-stress-syndrome) she said "Yes there is and it's called autism."

She also said that she is certain I have Asperger's and she thinks I will end up with a diagnosis, just after 30 minutes of knowing me. She has a son who has Asperger's.

So either I get my diagnosis and it's like "Okay now I finally know why I struggle like this and I may be able to get some support with my struggles rather than just having incorrect mood stabilizers thrown at me"..... or I don't and it's like "back to square one and back to doctors telling me there's something wrong but they don't know what it is."

I'm sorry if my answer was wayyyyyyyy too long and I rambled far too much.

If you really read this far and didn't skip any of my rambling, then thank you very much

If not that's fine too

Of course, the reality of it all is, whether I get diagnosed or not... I still have all the same problems and symptoms even if they're not autistic problems or symptoms of autism. To just have some kind of explanation for my struggles would be nice, provided it's the correct explanation. It's not like if I don't get diagnosed I won't still have very similar struggles to autistic people and it's still severe enough for my doctors to say that I definitely have very real mental health problems and struggles and I'm not fit for work because I wouldn't cope or might have another breakdown.

If I don't get diagnosed it's like "Okay so I still have the exact same problems and all I've learned from this is that whatever it is it isn't autism."

"Okay now I finally know why I struggle like I do. It turns out I have autism." is much more relieving.

What's your favourite cheese?

(February 8, 2018 at 4:25 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: What's your favourite cheese?

Damnit now I really hope I get diagnosed just so I'm allowed to answer the cheese question.

How do you feel about the somewhat romanticizing of aspergers? Why do you think some people fake/self diagnose with aspergers?

(February 8, 2018 at 3:39 am)Grandizer Wrote:

(February 8, 2018 at 2:18 am)pool the matey Wrote: I don't really understand what this autism thing is tbf because I was kind of an introvert, shy, kind of guy that  got bullied but after some time I did some self reflection and figured out where I was lacking and rectified it. My doubt is, since you know all your problems so clearly, can't you do the same thing? Or is it like mentally impossible for you or do you lack motivation?

You were kind of shy and an introvert, was it anything more than that? Autism spectrum disorder is not primarily an anxiety disorder or verbal communication disorder. It is a pervasive [neuro]developmental disorder that doesn't just simply go away with life experience and opportunity to thrive in society, and it manifests in different ways in people with autism (just as there are all sorts of types [personality, intellectual, etc.] among neurotypical people). Expecting people with autism to rectify their struggles with this condition is like expecting a man with damaged legs who can't walk as a result to just get up and walk, no problem. It doesn't work that way, and if that had been the case, I would not have been still struggling with socialization, considering I've put in a lot of time and effort into becoming a better person socially. So perhaps not mentally impossible, but it's definitely extremely challenging for people like me to stop having this condition.

FTR, one need not be an introvert or shy to be diagnosable with autism. There is such a thing as an extroverted person with autism, believe it or not.

Also, if indeed you do have autism, then perhaps you're of the really high functioning type whose condition isn't as bad as mine (high functioning though I may be). Or you're like my brothers, who used to be really shy when they were younger but were still nevertheless neurotypical. I don't know you from Adam, but anything is possible.

Cool cool cool. So like what in your opinion are the top 3 symptoms of autism?

(February 8, 2018 at 4:15 am)Hammy Wrote:

(February 7, 2018 at 7:19 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Yes, I've been accused of doing that by people who know me IRL. Nobody wants to hear a guy incessantly analyze the most trivial matters in life, so they've either bluntly told me to shut up (usually family, lol) or they'll change the subject and move on to something else, which irks me even more (because the urge to analyze is still there and it's itching so badly).

Fuck this sounds like my life story lol.

Quote: My partner, on the other hand, she just asks for a hug ... that quiets me down for some reason.

Awww she sounds really nice.

Do you struggle in group conversations and are better at one on ones? I sure as hell do. In a group I'm either the only one who isn't talking and has no idea when it's his turn to speak... or I'm the only one talking and I'm feeling really anxious worrying if I'm talking too much and need to shut the fuck up and worrying if I'm making too many jokes. And then I make one and no one laughs. Etc. Lol.

Most of the time I just spend the entire time quiet but thinking about some joke I want to make but never getting around to making it and never feeling like I have any spot where I can jump in and make it.

Hmm... I find it helpful (because I have a tendency to dominate conversations) to just say 'what about you?' to the person I'm talking to when I discuss some aspect of my own life. It balances a conversation really well if you think you're talking too much and want to hear from a more introverted person who won't naturally speak their mind.

And throw in the bad jokes! Who gives a crap what people who don't laugh at jokes think about you?

(February 8, 2018 at 4:15 am)Hammy Wrote: Awww she sounds really nice.

She is. She can be way too kind and patient with me.

Quote:Do you struggle in group conversations and are better at one on ones? I sure as hell do. In a group I'm either the only one who isn't talking and has no idea when it's his turn to speak... or I'm the only one talking and I'm feeling really anxious worrying if I'm talking too much and need to shut the fuck up and worrying if I'm making too many jokes. And then I make one and no one laughs. Etc. Lol.

I sure do. I definitely prefer one on ones over group conversations. Or at least a conversation with two or three other people at most. Beyond that, it becomes a crowd to me. And when in a crowd, I always stay silent unless someone directly asks me something. All the while, I'm consciously self-observing to make sure I'm not coming off as awkward in my body language and facial expression, making sure I'm maintaining good eye contact with whoever is speaking, and smiling like a nervous wreck. I despise group talk.

Quote:The reason why I'm hoping I do is I'm just so tired of struggling all my life with things and not knowing why. So to just have some kind of explanation and possible support, and hell, maybe even make some friends (outside the internet I don't have any friends) because I can join autism and Aspie groups, etc.... it will just make my life so much easier.

Yep. I'm with you on this.

Quote:These are all things that have been said to me by professionals. GPs and psychs, mind you. None of them know anything about autism. My psych actually said that he knew nothing about it.

What irritates me about professionals like those is that they won't even then attempt to learn more about this disorder. In their minds, they already know all they need to know.

Quote:Not long ago I told a mental health support worker or social worker (something like that, I forget her exact job title) about this.... and when I said "But he says that unfortunately there's no such thing as acutely-sensitive-to-stress-syndrome) she said "Yes there is and it's called autism."

Interesting.

Quote:She also said that she is certain I have Asperger's and she thinks I will end up with a diagnosis, just after 30 minutes of knowing me. She has a son who has Asperger's.

Yeah, some people are really good at judging if someone is very likely to have autism or not, even when it's not obvious to the untrained eye.

By the way, how many people here who would take a look at this interview with Dan Aykroyd not realize that he has autism?





But ... he is acting normal, right? He sure is. In fact, he kills it in this interview. But he's also trying hard not to mess it up.

Another interview with Dan Aykroyd from this link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/articl...hosts.html

At one point in the interview, he says the following:

Quote:I also have Asperger’s but I can manage it. It wasn’t diagnosed until the early Eighties when my wife persuaded me to see a doctor. One of my symptoms included my obsession with ghosts and law enforcement — I carry around a police badge with me, for example. I became obsessed by Hans Holzer, the greatest ghost hunter ever. That’s when the idea of my film Ghostbusters was born.

But how? He's a famous comedian? People with Asperger's can be funny???

But wait a minute ... you know what other famous comedian is suspected to have autism?

Jerry Seinfeld.

He even suspects it himself, but of course, the public aren't too willing to accept this. No way two famous people can have autism. They're too successful to have Asperger's ... is what they argue.

But people who think this way have no idea. They think autism has to be visible to everyone, that failure in life has to be an inevitability of having autism, that people with autism are generally boring, that it's not enough to know for oneself whether or not they're on the spectrum.

Wrong.

Quote:If you really read this far and didn't skip any of my rambling, then thank you very much

No worries. I'm making sure I read every word posted in this thread.

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(February 8, 2018 at 4:25 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: What's your favourite cheese?

Serious boring answer:
La Vache Qui Rit (The Cow That Laughs)

And if this was a reference, I didn't get it. Sorry.

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(February 8, 2018 at 4:26 am)Hammy Wrote:

(February 8, 2018 at 4:25 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: What's your favourite cheese?

Damnit now I really hope I get diagnosed just so I'm allowed to answer the cheese question.

Is this something to do with a burger by any chance?

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(February 8, 2018 at 5:39 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: How do you feel about the somewhat romanticizing of aspergers?

Misleading. Here's the thing:

People with Asperger's aren't always of above average intelligence (IQ-wise).

People with Asperger's aren't always logical. Perhaps, they're generally less emotional in their word usages than neurotypicals, but emotional and logical are not opposites of each other. The "opposite" of emotional is "less emotional".

People with Asperger's aren't necessarily honest. Speaking for myself, I have extreme difficulty lying on the spot and difficulty with social bullshitting, but when I have to lie (whether for my own protection or to protect someone I care about), I will prepare beforehand in the hope of doing so convincingly.

And while there are a lot of things about me to be proud of, that may or may not be attributable to having Asperger's, I do sometimes envy neurotypicals and have nothing but admiration for how "skillful" they often are with their socializing. I look at my brothers, both younger than me, and wonder what it's like to be in their shoes: to bond with people so easily, and to have this fluent social thing about them. And how far they have come in life.

Quote:Why do you think some people fake/self diagnose with aspergers?

These are two separate questions.

Fake, I don't know. If that's a thing in this case, then most likely for attention. What else could it be?

Self-diagnose? Probably because it costs money to get a proper diagnosis, but they nevertheless can tell they have this based on what they have read about this condition. Nothing wrong with this, as long as they self-evaluate properly and confirm these evaluations multiple times to themselves, considering various factors and ruling out all other probable disorders.

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(February 8, 2018 at 5:44 am)pool the matey Wrote:

(February 8, 2018 at 3:39 am)Grandizer Wrote: You were kind of shy and an introvert, was it anything more than that? Autism spectrum disorder is not primarily an anxiety disorder or verbal communication disorder. It is a pervasive [neuro]developmental disorder that doesn't just simply go away with life experience and opportunity to thrive in society, and it manifests in different ways in people with autism (just as there are all sorts of types [personality, intellectual, etc.] among neurotypical people). Expecting people with autism to rectify their struggles with this condition is like expecting a man with damaged legs who can't walk as a result to just get up and walk, no problem. It doesn't work that way, and if that had been the case, I would not have been still struggling with socialization, considering I've put in a lot of time and effort into becoming a better person socially. So perhaps not mentally impossible, but it's definitely extremely challenging for people like me to stop having this condition.

FTR, one need not be an introvert or shy to be diagnosable with autism. There is such a thing as an extroverted person with autism, believe it or not.

Also, if indeed you do have autism, then perhaps you're of the really high functioning type whose condition isn't as bad as mine (high functioning though I may be). Or you're like my brothers, who used to be really shy when they were younger but were still nevertheless neurotypical. I don't know you from Adam, but anything is possible.

Cool cool cool. So like what in your opinion are the top 3 symptoms of autism?

No such thing. You either meet the minimum number of criteria for this and that, and therefore you have autism, or you barely miss the minimum number and you have sub-clinical "autism", or you clearly don't meet the criteria and you're a pure red-blooded neurotypical.

For Grandizer and Rev Rye:

Has there been any speculation that perhaps autism is really just a rare type of personality, rather than a legitimate disorder/illness?

(February 9, 2018 at 9:24 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: For Grandizer and Rev Rye:

Has there been any speculation that perhaps autism is really just a rare type of personality, rather than a legitimate disorder/illness?

Nitpick note: In my personal view, there is a difference between disorder and illness, but that's not the question anyway, so to the actual question:

There certainly has been such speculation, even from people diagnosed with high-functioning autism themselves who believe Asperger's is just a personality style and shouldn't be seen as a disorder at all. And then you have people who just have a general distrust in what psychologists and psychiatrists have to say, and so may not even believe most mental illnesses in the DSM are a thing.

I have also noted concerned/angry parents of children with the really severe types of autism who take issue with people with Asperger's being on the same spectrum of disorder as their children, probably because of the way the media's focus on people with Asperger's tends to portray to the misinformed public that autism as a cool trendy thing that no one should be troubled by, when that is not the reality for parents of children who have constant meltdowns and tend to be really violent and cause nothing but misery for them.

Nevertheless, I disagree that Asperger's is not a disorder, because like I said before, it's not an issue of shyness or introversion or anything of the sort. It's a cluster of symptoms that indicate an impairment in functioning in several domains in life (whether social, occupational, relationships, etc.) for the individual who has these symptoms, even those with the less severe levels (like myself). Even if it should just be counted as nothing more than a personality style, I struggle in life and still have to socialize in an energy-consuming intellectual manner rather than in a relaxed intuitive manner. It would also mean that people like me would no longer have any specialized access to support of any type. If it weren't a disorder, there wouldn't be an organization here in Australia who helps people on the spectrum specifically with employment. If it weren't for them, I wouldn't have been able to get one of the jobs I'm now in. If it weren't a disorder, people would have less empathy for people like me, and blame our failure in social life on such things as stupidity or laziness or whatever, instead of realizing that we genuinely do have trouble with socializing that is due to genetic defects and other biological factors (and a little bit of early environmental factors as well, I'm sure).

All that said, one can have fun debating whether high-functioning, less severe forms of autism are a disorder or not. But no one can reasonably argue that there isn't something "disorderly" about the severe low-functioning types.