(January 31, 2018 at 12:52 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Let's see if we can make some sense out of this.

The Trinity, in the mainstream sense, refers to the one God who is three Persons, each being fully the one God, yet distinct from each other.

The Father is fully the one God.

The Son is fully the one God.

The Holy Spirit is fully the one God.

They are all one and the same God, yet three distinct Persons of God?

Of course, many of us are aware of the history behind how the Trinity doctrine came to be, but let's overlook that for the sake of argument and let's see how theists who are all about using logic can make logical sense out of this one.

Remember, the Persons of the Trinity are each the one and only God; they are not aspects/states of the one God (i.e., modalism) or three gods in one (e.g., as Mormons believe).

It's really really simple there sport.

The word "God" is a title. Not a name. As in:

God the Father

God the Son

God the Holy Spirit

Can you not see how three distinct persons can share the same title of God?

So how can three individuals be one?

Because again it is a title that three individual share. There is only one God is the same as saying there is only one government of the united states... Yet in that government it is made up of the executive branch, the legislative branch and the judicial branch. all equal parts of the government and all make the single government that directs the united states. we do not have three governments just because we can subdivide the title word government into three indivisual branches...

The problem here is how most people understand the use of the word God. Most of you don't get how it is used in scripture and therefore misuse it to the point where the simple trinitarian doctrine becomes a real abject mystery. one that can be answered by reclaiming the word God as a Title and not a individual deity's name.

.............................you could only be criticizing your fellow -christers- use of the term....atheists don't believe in the trinity, and you don't believe that god is a single entity.  You think you're dealing with three individual shift managers that you call "Boss".

Not our fault your brothers in christ fucked that one up, now is it?

(February 7, 2018 at 10:33 am)Drich Wrote:

(January 31, 2018 at 12:52 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Let's see if we can make some sense out of this.

The Trinity, in the mainstream sense, refers to the one God who is three Persons, each being fully the one God, yet distinct from each other.

The Father is fully the one God.

The Son is fully the one God.

The Holy Spirit is fully the one God.

They are all one and the same God, yet three distinct Persons of God?

Of course, many of us are aware of the history behind how the Trinity doctrine came to be, but let's overlook that for the sake of argument and let's see how theists who are all about using logic can make logical sense out of this one.

Remember, the Persons of the Trinity are each the one and only God; they are not aspects/states of the one God (i.e., modalism) or three gods in one (e.g., as Mormons believe).

It's really really simple there sport.

The word "God" is a title. Not a name. As in:

God the Father

God the Son

God the Holy Spirit

Can you not see how three distinct persons can share the same title of God?

So how can three individuals be one?

Because again it is a title that three individual share. There is only one God is the same as saying there is only one government of the united states... Yet in that government it is made up of the executive branch, the legislative branch and the judicial branch. all equal parts of the government and all make the single government that directs the united states. we do not have three governments just because we can subdivide the title word government into three indivisual branches...

The problem here is how most people understand the use of the word God. Most of you don't get how it is used in scripture and therefore misuse it to the point where the simple trinitarian doctrine becomes a real abject mystery. one that can be answered by reclaiming the word God as a Title and not a individual deity's name.

Ok, that's fine, but neither you, nor Huggy, nor Steve, nor GC are Nicene Trinitarians. Huggy believes that God is strictly one being, and you, Steve, and GC believe in three "parallel" divine entities in one God collective. It's logical, I'll give you that (at the least, it's not visibly illogical). But the Nicene Trinity (the one described in such texts as the Catechism and adhered to by many learned Christians) does [seem to] defy logic.

(February 7, 2018 at 11:18 am)Grandizer Wrote: Ok, that's fine, but neither you, nor Huggy, nor Steve, nor GC are Nicene Trinitarians. Huggy believes that God is strictly one being, and you, Steve, and GC believe in three "parallel" divine entities in one God collective. It's logical, I'll give you that (at the least, it's not visibly illogical). But the Nicene Trinity (the one described in such texts as the Catechism and adhered to by many learned Christians) does [seem to] defy logic.

I believed as Huggy did at one point too. it's not a pass or fail test. we are simply tasked to be faithful to what we can understand/carry.

After I took the "question everything approach to my faith my base understanding of everything change just enough to where everything now makes sense. 9 times out of 10 when we do not understand a principle of God is because a given principle of God conflicts with a "religious/non biblical explanation or understanding of God. and we in our pride tend to question the principle of God before we question our own understanding.

When I realized I did not even understand how the word God was being used in the bible, I was given it's true nature as being a title like President Lord or King. There is only one God (in contrast to how that word was used to explain a deity or even several demi deity over the sky a deity over the ocean a deity over emotion ect..) When the Jews said it or when Jesus said it that is what he meant. There is only one "king" "lord" GOD One God three parts. You can plug in every single explaintion found in the bible to the "title/not a name explanation and it make sense each and every time.

Where it does not make sense is when man in a doctrine creed or whatever other silliness he gives weight to tries to explain God with the same authority the bible has. You or rather those who worship God must ask them selves what God do I worship? the God of a given creed or catechism, or the God of the bible, each and every time the bible schisms from the explanation found in a creed or a doctrine.

There is a huge difference between worshiping the God of the bible and following the God of popular Christianity. NONE of the things pop Christianity requires to establish and maintain faith is a requirement found or shown maintain in the NT.

Um . . .

Just occurred to me God would have experienced directly Jesus death on the cross and would have also suffered Christ's depredations in Hell.

Does that mute or enhance what Jesus experienced ?

God would have had to willingly submit to everything that happened to Jesus too . . . and shared His reactions.

Like Jesus anger at the fig tree, Jesus being aware His feet were sore/tired from trekking from place to place, Jesus feeling hunger and knowing it's time to eat, God has a direct simultaneous identical experience.

Is there theological peril with any of that ?

(February 7, 2018 at 11:18 am)Grandizer Wrote:

(February 7, 2018 at 10:33 am)Drich Wrote: It's really really simple there sport.

The word "God" is a title. Not a name. As in:

God the Father

God the Son

God the Holy Spirit

Can you not see how three distinct persons can share the same title of God?

So how can three individuals be one?

Because again it is a title that three individual share. There is only one God is the same as saying there is only one government of the united states... Yet in that government it is made up of the executive branch, the legislative branch and the judicial branch. all equal parts of the government and all make the single government that directs the united states. we do not have three governments just because we can subdivide the title word government into three indivisual branches...

The problem here is how most people understand the use of the word God. Most of you don't get how it is used in scripture and therefore misuse it to the point where the simple trinitarian doctrine becomes a real abject mystery. one that can be answered by reclaiming the word God as a Title and not a individual deity's name.

Ok, that's fine, but neither you, nor Huggy, nor Steve, nor GC are Nicene Trinitarians. Huggy believes that God is strictly one being, and you, Steve, and GC believe in three "parallel" divine entities in one God collective. It's logical, I'll give you that (at the least, it's not visibly illogical). But the Nicene Trinity (the one described in such texts as the Catechism and adhered to by many learned Christians) does [seem to] defy logic.

Still not illogical, or a contradiction.... it may be paradoxical, or perhaps difficult to understand. But yours nor anyone elses lack of understanding makes it illogical.

It’s definitely pretty fucking stupid, though. That’s for sure.

(February 7, 2018 at 11:55 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: It’s definitely pretty fucking stupid, though.  That’s for sure.

Yeah, I should've just stuck to that instead.

(February 8, 2018 at 12:23 am)Grandizer Wrote:

(February 7, 2018 at 11:55 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: It’s definitely pretty fucking stupid, though.  That’s for sure.

Yeah, I should've just stuck to that instead.

But what fun would that have been, right? 

(February 7, 2018 at 11:55 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: It’s definitely pretty fucking stupid, though.  That’s for sure.

You probably are not in danger of someone ripping of that quote to put on a poster for civil discourse. 

Not at all related to that, I wonder why our society is getting so polarized?