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[Serious] The Trinity
#1
The Trinity
If there are any who are willing to explain what the trinity is and who Jesus Christ is, in relation to God "the Father", I'd very much appreciate it. How can they be the same being? I find this concept very contradictory and confusing and it frustrates me to try to do research on it. I'd like the human interaction and to be able to ask questions. 

I know, Christians probably get this question a lot and it might be tiresome to explain it yet again, especially when I am not going to be converted. But anyone who is patient and feels up to it, I'd like to discuss it and at least logically understand what the canon lore is. If it is possible.

Useless Background:


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#2
RE: The Trinity
I am far from being a religious scholar but being raised Catholic the Holy Trinity was a big deal. The three parts of the trinity are said to be the same, yet different...weird concept to try to wrap your head around. But you have God the Father, Jesus-the son, and The Holy Spirit.

It's one of the things that caused me to not really buy into religion, even as a kid. God is supposed to be some supreme overseer who sent his son to earth in human form to teach and then sacrifice himself to cleanse the people of their sins. (Blood sacrifice at it's finest, I suppose.) The Holy Spirit, or Holy Ghost is something I really never grasped that well but is the power of God.

All three are one yet all three are different...to me it's one of those things you are just supposed to take on faith.

Added to all that in Catholicism is the worship of the Virgin Mary and the saints...which, I think, goes against one of the commandments...but what does a heathen like me know?

There is so much in the various Christian teachings that you are just supposed to go with regardless of how it's not logical. God works in mysterious ways and all that.
 “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ~Albert Einstein                                                 
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#3
RE: The Trinity
Thank you, arewe for the explanation. I'm hoping to still get more replies, because my understanding is the same as you've just said here. ^^;; and it...it doesn't fit. Like, I myself have different roles I play, different aspects of my personality. But from "Five, the man" to "Five, the writer", you wouldn't refer to me differently. I am always Five, whether I am son, father(of my pup), farmer, hunter, etc.

(January 15, 2021 at 1:25 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: There is so much in the various Christian teachings that you are just supposed to go with regardless of how it's not logical. God works in mysterious ways and all that.

I'm not good with that contradiction either. The "here are some answers but only some of them" aspect of faith. Who am I trusting, really? God, or the man who speaks for him? But that's probably best left for a different topic.

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#4
RE: The Trinity
I don't have time or inclination to write it out.  Read about Greek Logos or "the Word" and Jewish "Wisdom."  Platonism meets Judaism to create Jesus, the Word of God, the means by which God is knowable to us lowly creatures.

The Holy Spirit is more difficult to pin down.  Early on, it was simply the presence of God.  Later, it seemed to become the means by which God knows us, our every thought and action.  

The trinity is an example of kluge in religion, something I will take time to write about before too long.
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#5
RE: The Trinity
Sorry, I can't discuss this............. seriously.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




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#6
RE: The Trinity
"It's a mystery"

I was going to explain how the Trinity are 3 different ways in which we experience God, but then the bible says that the 3 were always part of God, so that means they have nothing to do with our perception. They always were objectively real. Jesus and the holy spirit were with the Father, and the 3 were co-creators of the universe.

This makes no sense to me at all. The Trinity is some bad Platonism combined with popular savior/demigod mythology.
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#7
RE: The Trinity
The official doctrine of the Trinity goes like this:

God is one in being (so monotheism, not tritheism or a family of Gods, such as in Mormonism).

Nevertheless, God is three Persons in one Being. The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. Each Person is like a "full entity" (so not components or parts of God but each is fully God).

The Persons are distinct from one another but not separate.

The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, yet the Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit, the Son neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit neither the Father nor the Son.

The Persons are not aspects or modes of God (this is called modalism and is a heresy according to the mainstream Church[es]). And they are each fully God.

That's the ontological Trinity. Each equal in divine essence.

It gets even trickier when you start talking about the role of each of the Persons. The Father is greater than the Son in what sense? Does the Holy Spirit proceed from the Father and the Son, or the Father through the Son (filioque)? And other such questions.

Don't forget the bit about Jesus (the Son in flesh) being both fully God and fully human (hypostatic union). Amusing debates ensue from this. Is Mary the mother of God, or the Lord?

And no, I don't understand any of this and think the Trinity is incoherent. No matter how I look at it, it does seem like that there isn't any meaningful distinction between Person and Being in the context of the Trinity.
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#8
RE: The Trinity
From the Gospels, the Holy Spirit sired Jesus.  So the Holy Spirit is God's wang.  In all seriousness.
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#9
RE: The Trinity
It's just magic... don't ask questions, just accept it Smile
The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will fly to the stars.

Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud ..... after a while you realise that the pig likes it!

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#10
RE: The Trinity
If we're looking for a serious discussion, we're coming at this from the wrong angle. It's not a logical puzzle to be solved and resolved to sense.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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