(February 17, 2018 at 1:28 pm)Chad32 Wrote:

(February 17, 2018 at 10:24 am)The Industrial Atheist Wrote: I remember hearing that scripture being read in Church and it's mind boggling that I stayed in that religion. Fuck a god that punishes people for things other people did.

I've always had a problem with the concept of someone being punished for something out of their control. It was probably the biggest problem I had with the Eden story. I don't know where this idea came from, except to manipulate people who cared about their kids. Don't step out of line, or we'll make your kid and grandkid suffer.

If you can get people to believe it, it would be a serious deterrent. Also really fucked up.

(February 17, 2018 at 12:55 pm)The Industrial Atheist Wrote:

(February 17, 2018 at 11:30 am)A Theist Wrote: No. You're only reading the scripture in part...He visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generations of those who hate Him. Then the next verse reads that He shows mercy unto thousands who love Him and keep His commandments.

He's saying that he visits wrath upon the generations of children who follow in the sins of their fathers but shows mercy to all who turn from the sins of their fathers to love God and keep His commandments.

I haven't read the Bible much in a year, but wouldn't they then have their own iniquity? Like why add the fathers inquity? It seems like it would be a rather redundant way to say "Yep, they'll get what they deserve," if that's what you mean. I guess where I got the interpretation of people suffering because of what there ancestors did was, years ago when I went to a Pentecostal Church they did a thing for generational curses and that scripture was mentioned in it.

The whole concept seemed off to me but I was willing to try it with the issue I had.

In any event, since I don't find the scriptures to be sacred or anything I would rather people believe less unjust interpretations of scripture whether it's what the author intended or not.

Yes, they were responsible for the iniquity that they committed, and the iniquity that they had chosen for themselves was to follow after the very sins that their fathers had committed. What I meant was, and what is repeated throughout the Bible, that while God will mete out consequence for the sins they committed He is quick to extend mercy to those who seek Him for it and who turn from their sins. The guy was getting hung up on just the one verse about the sins of the fathers being handed down to the generations of children following their sins but leaving out the next verse where God said that he would show mercy to those who love Him and keep His commandments. Basically, what the verses were saying is that while there's a consequence for the sins we commit there's also mercy if we seek Him for it and forsake those sins. That theme is repeated throughout the Bible.

Sounds more like blackmail than altruism. Do what I say, or I'll beat the shit out of you. Be obedient, and I'll most likely not hurt you. Unless I just feel like a dick that day, like with Job.

(February 17, 2018 at 4:41 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Sounds more like blackmail than altruism. Do what I say, or I'll beat the shit out of you. Be obedient, and I'll most likely not hurt you. Unless I just feel like a dick that day, like with Job.

Good point.  Morality isn't actually possible for Christians, all their 'moral' behavior is coerced.  They're not so much 'good' as safe.

You know, another thought comes to mind: Why would anyone want to worship a god that refuses to do anything about the murder of innocent children because people aren't paying him enough lip service?

Everything bad that happens is our fault, and he gets credit for everything good that happens. Somehow.

(February 17, 2018 at 1:12 pm)pool the matey Wrote: I don't think that if that kid were a god fearing Christian he would've shot at and killed 17 other people.

According the the fairy tale Yahweh has a gang of evil angels who do his dirty work, like murdering people.  Sometimes he uses bears but there weren't any available in the area.

(February 17, 2018 at 6:18 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(February 17, 2018 at 1:12 pm)pool the matey Wrote: I don't think that if that kid were a god fearing Christian he would've shot at and killed 17 other people.

According the the fairy tale Yahweh has a gang of evil angels who do his dirty work, like murdering people.  Sometimes he uses bears but there weren't any available in the area.

Well if it's just a fairy tale then there's no problem is there 🙃

It's still an appalling concept for people to call good or justice . Whether it happened or not .

(February 17, 2018 at 6:18 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(February 17, 2018 at 1:12 pm)pool the matey Wrote: I don't think that if that kid were a god fearing Christian he would've shot at and killed 17 other people.

According the the fairy tale Yahweh has a gang of evil angels who do his dirty work, like murdering people.  Sometimes he uses bears but there weren't any available in the area.

Holding people responsible 4 subsequent generations after the actual miscreant sinned is pretty dirty work indeed.