(March 1, 2018 at 2:37 am)orthodox-man Wrote: ...Many NDE researchers who believe NDEs are supernatural,...

I see much talk of researchers but who are they and what are their relevant qualifications? Are they neurologists, physiologists or are they random no account motherfuckers promoting woo, and or selling books?
Future posts on the subject of NDE's should contain names, quotes and a few direct links. In many instances just the name of a website will tell you everything you need to know about it.

Links is good

(February 28, 2018 at 8:50 pm)orthodox-man Wrote: Anyhow, do these similarities amongst accounts scare any of you?

Nah.  

Quote:I would just really like to get rid of this whole hell fear.

Well, why are you afraid of it?  You have to understand why you're scared before you can face whatever fear that is.

I once attempted suicide.

Thankfully my organs remained unharmed as I got treatment quickly. But if I had got gotten treatment slightly later I would have died. Some could say I nearly died.

Nearly dying... what the fuck's so supernatural about that?

Say God is real and omnibenevolent, really loves each of us. In the NT it is said that God IS love. If that's the kind of God you believe in, it doesn't make sense that it would let mortals be tortured for eternity for their finite crimes and failures.

-and if he is that sort of god, who would do that or allow that..what can you do about it, and can you really trust any purported contract he makes with lowly human worms?

Marcus Aurelius pre-emepted this christer shit.

Quote:Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.

My idea of hell is a session with a life insurance salesman. 

Death seems preferable.

(March 1, 2018 at 2:35 pm)Minimalist Wrote: My idea of hell is a session with a life insurance salesman. 

Death seems preferable.

Mine is time spent in a car dealership.

For Christ's sake, give me the rack. Just don't make me sit here while you 'run something past' your goddamn sales manager . . . again!

(March 1, 2018 at 9:34 am)Succubus Wrote:

(March 1, 2018 at 2:37 am)orthodox-man Wrote: ...Many NDE researchers who believe NDEs are supernatural,...

I see much talk of researchers but who are they and what are their relevant qualifications? Are they neurologists, physiologists or are they random no account motherfuckers promoting woo, and or selling books?
Future posts on the subject of NDE's should contain names, quotes and a few direct links. In many instances just the name of a website will tell you everything you need to know about it.

Links is good

Look up:
https://skeptiko.com/eeg-expert-on-near-...xperience/

And also, Eben Alexander had a very prodound nde while his brain was completely in a state where it could do nothing. I read the Esquire article which apparently "debunkee" his case, but found this as a rebuttal:

https://skeptiko.com/220-esquire-proof-o...-debunked/

Here is the link I talked about where Jesus appears differently to different people:

https://www.near-death.com/science/research/jesus.html
"Perhaps the greatest reason why Jesus is described in differing ways in NDEs can best be described by Margaret Tweddell who revealed that Jesus appears in a way that you can recognize him and/or just as you've always imagined you see him. He shows himself to us according to our own understanding. The reason for this is that souls can appear in any form they desire."

Here is the link to the Belgian study which found NDEs differ in order and content from individual to individual

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5469194/

Also on the nderf.org website, there are a whole plethora of NDEs where people say they felt "more real" than real life, and apparently, their memories are also clearer than real life events, with this study:

Summary:
http://skeptiko.com/near-death-experienc...unted-285/

Actual study:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article...ne.0057620

I have spent a lot of time researching it and again: NDEs seem to be really graphic, and even some atheists have them and change to believing in some form of afterlife
Ex:
https://m.theepochtimes.com/uplift/chine...27544.html

They seem to be very moving and vivid experiences, which are hard to explain, imagining some brain under severe stress can have logical thinking. I am aware that different people have different reasons for ndes, so it cannot just simply be lack of oxygen to the brain or loss of blood, etc. It seems more complicated than that. However, as I also posted above, there are inconsistencies among ndes, order, things seen, etc. Also, some of the time nders see living relatives in their experiences (about 2 percent of the time) and sometimes people come back with different messages for ex: accept Jesus or you will burn in hell vs some who say Jesus told them it only matters if you are a good person. I think therefore even though they are quite astonishing experiences, there are inconsistencies that cannot go unnoticed. From that we can deduce that at least some NDEs are false, because two different stories cannot be true. I want to know if all are.

Sceptiko and Eben Alexander is as far as I read. The first is highly concentrated woo and as for the second one; his mother should be charged with dope carrying.

Fundamentalist religions tend to be very fear and punishment based.  I was raised Pentecostal.  I heard dozens of preachers telling stories that -- even at a young age, I knew were complete fabrications.  One gave a talk about how rock music was an opening for demonic possession.  (This was in the late 60's, I'm dating myself.)  They played Beatles records backwards to let us "hear" the demonic voices that were deliberately added in the recording process.  Another preacher ranted against the very popular stuffed animal-toy "snakes" with jewel eyes - he said that many children had been demonically possessed because they played with a pretty fuzzy snake.  My Mother went right to my room, took my toy snake, and burned it.  (Smelled awful and I was really angry.)  Another preacher ranted and raved about evolution, and how stupid and evil it is, and how all scientists were demons in disguise, that demons had buried dinosaur bones to de-convert the faithful, and that Charles Darwin's grave is constantly infested with snakes.  And, of course, I could make a list of about 200 "sins" that would take people down the slippery slope to hell - guys with long hair, women who work, watching tv, reading about other religions, etc., etc.   They were just making up scary stories to keep the sheeple in line.  This seems to have been the prominent witch-doctor modus operandi for at least 2 billion years.

But if you have been raised with this nonsense, it's hard to pull away from it.  

Some of the thoughts that make me certain that hell is a myth are: 
1) it is completely immoral and it is extortion: "believe in my stories and my sacrifice and worship me (a deity for which there is absolutely no proof of its existence) or I'll burn you forever"
2) if this "god" who supposedly created the "heavens and the earth" is loving - at all - an afterlife would be instructive, not punitive, and most certainly would not punish those who had valid reason to doubt, or those who were raised in other religions
3) if "god" is omniscient and IF "god" created humans, then "god" knew BEFORE it created humans that it would create hell and torture 99+% of all humans for eternity
   3A) If you date the first humans from stone tools, that's 2.5 million years ago.  If you go with the preachers, it's 6000 years ago.  Let's take the smaller number and consider that the message only came through a tiny little desert tribe.  If a being (that supposedly created billions of galaxies) was capable of communicating with a single tribe, then it was capable of getting the message to ALL of the humans on this insignificant little planet. If a deity really existed, (and it wanted human worship for some reason) there would be only one religion. 


I could go on for a while but that's a big wall of text as it is . . .