Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
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Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
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 RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 12, 2018 at 1:09 pm
What or who was the cause of this "God" being?
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni: "You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???" RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 12, 2018 at 1:22 pm
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2018 at 1:27 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote: Now give me examples of things that don't have causes.Indeed...that's exactly what I asked you for. I'll take two, please. Ultimately, your "argument" is tautological and has nothing to do with any god. It merely asserts that caused things have causes. Well, no shit. So let's hear about un-caused things..to make sure it's not an empty set, or worse..... a set with a single conveniently asserted representative, rendering the entire premise of your working with some inductive this or that, more accurately..you breathlessly stating the articles of your faith.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 12, 2018 at 1:27 pm
(March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote:(March 12, 2018 at 12:06 pm)Mathilda Wrote: Name something that began to exist and tell us the exact moment this would have happened and the cause. So your keyboard began to exist billions of years ago? At which point? When the last atom in your keyboard became the necessary element required for the chemical reaction? When the elements were used in the final chemical reactions that make up the matter in your keyboard? When it was finally asembled. (March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote: This post (me, electricity, my computer components, the internet and all the hardware necessary to maintain that connection) When did it begin to exist? When you started typing it? When you hit send? When the server received the response? When the server unlocked the database after updating it? When the webserver first displayed it because someone refreshed the thread? (March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote: I began to exist. (parents, biological processes) When your father's sperm cell invaded the wall of your mother's egg? When the egg started dividing? When you were born? (March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote: My office began to exist (a builder, some supplies) When the very first elements were formed that make up the office? When the final brick was laid down? When you moved in and started using it as an office? When the final fixture was fitted? (March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote: Our sun began to exist (dense gasses and whatnot) When it was still a nebular? When the shockwave of a supernova hit it? When the ignition first started with the first atom? When the last atom in the nebular got swallowed up? When the first photon of light was emitted? (March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote: Our galaxy began to exist (more of the same) More of the same. (March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote: Now give me examples of things that don't have causes. No. Let's not use that definition. Because my entire point is that using the word 'cause' in the KCA is equivocation and conflation. The word is meant to be used as short hand to communicate information quickly. Fine in every day language if I am going to say "Sorry, I caused that explosion", but not precise enough to hang an entire belief system on. This is because reality is not broken down into discrete events. It is a continuous changing process made up of a myriad of smaller continuous processes. Using the short hand term of 'cause' that is useful for our every day lives when talking about how the universe we currently see came about is conflation and takes the word out of scope. So let's see the KCA re-written without the use of the word 'cause' in a way that acknowledges that the universe continually changes. And if you did that then it still wouldn't help because I can even make the same argument for the word 'thing'. When does a thing begin and a thing end?  RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 12, 2018 at 1:36 pm
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2018 at 1:38 pm by downbeatplumb.)
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid. Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.  RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 12, 2018 at 3:21 pm
No it's in fact huggy who getting desperate
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb  RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 12, 2018 at 3:22 pm
(March 12, 2018 at 1:27 pm)Mathilda Wrote:(March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote: Now give me examples of things that don't have causes. You are confusing the difficulty in describing a causal chain (and where to stop) with x, y, or z item with a Causal Principle. The fact is that with enough knowledge, you could describe the causal chain for a billion years BECAUSE you believe in a Causal Principle. The entire enterprise of science is founded on there being a Causal Principle. We rewind history to come up with cosmology models by using a Causal Principle. All I need for the argument is there to be a Causal Principle. Are you going to deny there is such a thing?  RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 12, 2018 at 3:51 pm
Oh, regarding Hickey's missing uterus, the problem isn't that she may or may not suffer from that problem, it's that you, Huggy, jumped to that conclusion. From what my research has shown, Hickey herself has never said what her problem is/was. There are many conditions that can preclude pregnancy. And some conditions can present as others (misdiagnosis is a thing). So, my mockery of you isn't due to me not believing/knowing the condition exists, but rather you insisting - without any proof - that it's what she was miraculously cured of.
You ASSume a great many things, Huggy. All without cause. Regarding 'some discrepancy' between the accounts of Upshaw's 'healing', all we have are those two people's accounts of what may or may not have happened. No other 'witnesses' on the record, as far as I can tell (which is amazing since the 'healing' happened immediately in a church service). Moreover, the account went from "Oh, tell that guy I had a vision, and now he's healed" to "I talked to him directly, had a vision of not only his accident, but a brown suit, and other things, plus I removed the other guy (Kopp) from the story completely." And, of course, there's ample photographic evidence of Upshaw standing without his crutches before the event (he was supposed to be wheelchair bound, yet he was getting in and out of convoys and delivering speeches 3-4 times a day). Again, you're gullible.  RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 12, 2018 at 4:07 pm
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2018 at 5:17 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(March 12, 2018 at 12:46 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Lol, everything is fake. JFC, Huggy. You can’t possibly be this much of a dolt. Before his Branham days, Upshaw was walking around on two legs getting his supposed cancer miraculously healed by a Brother Ogilvie. Upshaw is a crook and a liar. It took me about ten minutes of research to learn as much. The only desperate thing here is your credulity. You’ve been had. These people were con-artists then, and their stories are still conning people like you today; people who want to believe accountings like these are true in the face of all evidence to the contrary. And Ofc, none of this Hickey/Upshaw business has anything to do with demonstrating with evidence that light in a photo is god. What you HAVE demonstrated in this thread is your passion for confirmation bias, your complete misunderstanding of the word ‘evidence’, and a total abandonment of critical thinking. (March 12, 2018 at 3:23 am)Mathilda Wrote: Give me a proper definition of what a god is then. Well...it’s God, by definition, duh. Quote:What is it not? It’s not any of the things that aren’t god. Easy! Quote:What is it made of? God-stuff! It’s GOD. We can’t know. Why would you even entertain such a question?! Quote:How can we determine whether something is a god or not a god? If it’s not made of god-stuff, or if it’s made of stuff that’s not god, then it’s not god. On the other hand, if it’s god, then it’s god. Got anything tougher? Quote:Where do you find it? In a changeless, timeless place otherwise known as, ‘nowhere, ever.’ What are you talking about, Mathilda! God is perfectly well-defined! 😝 Quote:Look at that. I saved us a lot of time if you just want to fast forward to the end and admit that belief in God is not your thing, but it is not irrational. @steve I just want you to answer this one question, and then I’ll let you have the last word here. You and Mathilda have a lot going on. Why should I take seriously the positing of an entity that, by definition, requires no explanation for its alleged attributes and powers, and cannot be demonstrated to exist?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken. RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 12, 2018 at 5:04 pm
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2018 at 5:07 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 12, 2018 at 3:22 pm)SteveII Wrote: All I need for the argument is there to be a Causal Principle. Are you going to deny there is such a thing? Not even remotely true, and you know it, lol. You think the kca is a good argument for -god-..not a good argument for some causal principle. If you're going to pretend that you've reasoned your way into something you need to put in the effort. You and I and everyone else on earth agreeing that caused things have causes doesn't even begin that work...but you don't know what to do with agreement, do you?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 12, 2018 at 5:25 pm
Nope the causal principle is not even remotely good enough
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb |
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Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
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