Nothing can be derived from the current societal situation in Saudi Arabia, but there is an explosion that cannot be described but with being a strong hit on the head for every Wahhabi.

With the advent of modern software -and here; I'm referring to social media, especially Snapchat-, the population found means of breathing after the Wahhabi suffocation which lasted for generations. Now; people can very simply break the sexual barriers the Wahhabi institution forced on them. The religious institution and the extremists in general took a hell of a hit on the head..

Opening "Snapchat's Map" from the application is quite... a declaration of defeat? The people of the country are literally broadcasting public videos of them breaking the taboos of the past, the public events that include males and females -in an explicit break for the Wahhabi orders of preventing males and females from mixing in the public-, women are now working in shops, it's very common to see women with the face-veil taken off, videos of Saudi women began to invade porn sites.

In other words; the Wahhabi institution was lost this battle, and probably the war. My expectation is that they will backfire and cause a hell of a terrorist revenge attacks, but who knows?

Wahhabies finally began to drink from piss they made us drink for years with their support for the Sauds. The Sauds are not religious, but Wahhabies were their right hand man in keeping the people under control.

They were the true enemy of Islam; the damage they did was huge to the message. Only if you listened to what they say.

Now; there are other means of control. Wahhabies are not needed anymore. And it turns out that they weren't even that popular. Snapchat proves it. But the scare tactics kept people at bay. Now, the scare tactics simply don't work when you're armed with modern tech.

(March 15, 2018 at 12:08 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Nothing can be derived from the current societal situation in Saudi Arabia, but there is an explosion that cannot be described but with being a strong hit on the head for every Wahhabi.

With the advent of modern software -and here; I'm referring to social media, especially Snapchat-, the population found means of breathing after the Wahhabi suffocation which lasted for generations. Now; people can very simply break the sexual barriers the Wahhabi institution forced on them. The religious institution and the extremists in general took a hell of a hit on the head..

Opening "Snapchat's Map" from the application is quite... a declaration of defeat? The people of the country are literally broadcasting public videos of them breaking the taboos of the past, the public events that include males and females -in an explicit break for the Wahhabi orders of preventing males and females from mixing in the public-, women are now working in shops, it's very common to see women with the face-veil taken off, videos of Saudi women began to invade porn sites.

In other words; the Wahhabi institution was lost this battle, and probably the war. My expectation is that they will backfire and cause a hell of a terrorist revenge attacks, but who knows?

Wahhabies finally began to drink from piss they made us drink for years with their support for the Sauds. The Sauds are not religious, but Wahhabies were their right hand man in keeping the people under control.

They were the true enemy of Islam; the damage they did was huge to the message. Only if you listened to what they say.

Now; there are other means of control. Wahhabies are not needed anymore. And it turns out that they weren't even that popular. Snapchat proves it. But the scare tactics kept people at bay. Now, the scare tactics simply don't work when you're armed with modern tech.

Are you advocating for an armed revolt by atheists against your local tyrants? What the fuck do you want me to do about it!

(March 15, 2018 at 12:33 am)chimp3 Wrote:

(March 15, 2018 at 12:08 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Nothing can be derived from the current societal situation in Saudi Arabia, but there is an explosion that cannot be described but with being a strong hit on the head for every Wahhabi.

With the advent of modern software -and here; I'm referring to social media, especially Snapchat-, the population found means of breathing after the Wahhabi suffocation which lasted for generations. Now; people can very simply break the sexual barriers the Wahhabi institution forced on them. The religious institution and the extremists in general took a hell of a hit on the head..

Opening "Snapchat's Map" from the application is quite... a declaration of defeat? The people of the country are literally broadcasting public videos of them breaking the taboos of the past, the public events that include males and females -in an explicit break for the Wahhabi orders of preventing males and females from mixing in the public-, women are now working in shops, it's very common to see women with the face-veil taken off, videos of Saudi women began to invade porn sites.

In other words; the Wahhabi institution was lost this battle, and probably the war. My expectation is that they will backfire and cause a hell of a terrorist revenge attacks, but who knows?

Wahhabies finally began to drink from piss they made us drink for years with their support for the Sauds. The Sauds are not religious, but Wahhabies were their right hand man in keeping the people under control.

They were the true enemy of Islam; the damage they did was huge to the message. Only if you listened to what they say.

Now; there are other means of control. Wahhabies are not needed anymore. And it turns out that they weren't even that popular. Snapchat proves it. But the scare tactics kept people at bay. Now, the scare tactics simply don't work when you're armed with modern tech.

Are you advocating for an armed revolt by atheists against your local tyrants? What the fuck do you want me to do about it!

No? and who gave you the slightest indication that I'm that low, to let atheists go to war against Muslims?
We know what the game is: if I cry for "non Muslims" to save me; many of them -the bad ones; at least- will come with the B52s and AC130s, calling me and my brethren "sand n*****", then shoot us and the dictator alike after squeezing us out of our resources.

We saw it in Iraq.

What I'm doing is that I'm spreading awareness. Unlike many "anti theists";  I actually believe atheists are human beings just like me, and just like I learned the truth about this life online; I must repay the debt when I can.

I didn't sell my people yet; if that's what you say. Not ever gonna. But the dictators are not my people; matter in fact they are protected by non-believers !

---

And another question: how is that related to Wahhabism and Snapchat, really?

I made a "snap" judgement! But, your sectarian squabbles are of no concern to me. Regardless of your desire for easily available porn, you still advocate for a society that chops off body parts for theft.

You are right. People want to be free, by nature they cannot be wahhabi. People would much rather snapchat than follow strict Islam, that is for sure. Eventually the internet will destroy all of islam.

My take is that all people of good will, regardless of ideology, take heart when anyone or any group, using whatever means available and necessary, breaks free from oppression and institutionalized thinking. When religion is an option, where any person can walk away at any time without any repercussions imposed by those in authority, it is mostly harmless on any large scale. It was nearly inevitable that those living under the oppression of Islamic extremism would eventually revolt. That they use any technology available to aid in that effort is no surprise at all.

What will be interesting to see is how those hold on to their Muslim faith treat those who chose to walk away from it, seeing it as an ideology fundamental to their oppression. Will the faithful accept the decision or will they, in turn, strive to be the new oppressors?

(March 15, 2018 at 6:08 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(March 15, 2018 at 12:33 am)chimp3 Wrote: Are you advocating for an armed revolt by atheists against your local tyrants? What the fuck do you want me to do about it!

No? and who gave you the slightest indication that I'm that low, to let atheists go to war against Muslims?
We know what the game is: if I cry for "non Muslims" to save me; many of them -the bad ones; at least- will come with the B52s and AC130s, calling me and my brethren "sand n*****", then shoot us and the dictator alike after squeezing us out of our resources.

We saw it in Iraq.

What I'm doing is that I'm spreading awareness. Unlike many "anti theists";  I actually believe atheists are human beings just like me, and just like I learned the truth about this life online; I must repay the debt when I can.

I didn't sell my people yet; if that's what you say. Not ever gonna. But the dictators are not my people; matter in fact they are protected by non-believers !

---

And another question: how is that related to Wahhabism and Snapchat, really?

Atlass you should know better than to say crap like this having been on this board for years.

YES there are lots of fuckface idiots, but "anti-theist" does not mean anti human rights, just anti bad logic.

You have plenty of Christians and Jews and even Buddhists that hate Muslims as well. Can you find some atheists who are bigots, sure, but you wouldn't be on this board at all as long as you have if it was a hate site.

I am anti theist too. In the context that I don't think anyone in the world needs to cling to old mythology. But I am NOT out to force anyone to stop believing nor would I advocate physical force or violence to those who do believe.

I am glad to see more and more of my fellow humans on that side of the planet ditching the violent right ideology, but even with my fellow liberals whom are theists, I would even say to them, you don't need a religion to be good and do good.

The history of our ENTIRE species  worldwide has always been full of individuals whom are non violent and compassionate and sharing, and unfortunately we also have individuals and leaders whom lust for power and often use religion, to get others to keep them in power. 

No, not all who follow Islam are violent, but EVERY religion including Christianity, Jewish, Hindu and even Buddhist, have been used by the respective powers to get others to do that power's bidding, for good or bad.

Religion is a horrible way to conduct political diplomacy, even between the sub sects of the umbrella label. It isn't that you can rid the world of any religion by force, you cant, and to do so would make one a monster.

And FYI The Saudi Royal Family and their government ARE NOT supported by non-believers, they are supported by a majority Christian America. 

You are making the same error in logic by calling anyone who doesn't share your flavor of religion a "Non believer". No a non believer, an atheist, is someone who is "off" on every god claim, not just the one you hold to be true.

Trust me Atlass there is plenty of things Christians and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists do and say and claim that drive me nuts, not just Islam. Not because every religious individual is bad, but because their logic doesn't jive. 

There is lots about America that bothers me right now, and having a orange fuckface bigot in office is the worst of it. Atlass, you are always going to run into humans who hate you for no good reason, ask an atheist living in a majority Christian Country, moreso if that atheist lives in a deeply red right wing conservative state.

Not every atheist hates you. Ok?

(March 15, 2018 at 6:35 am)chimp3 Wrote: I made a "snap" judgement! But, your sectarian squabbles are of no concern to me. Regardless of your desire for easily available porn, you still advocate for a society that chops off body parts for theft.

I believe you don't quite understand what "sectarian" means, and hardly try to make the post say what it DOESN'T say.
Nobody even mentioned the Shiite/Sunni war, the post is discussing "the role of apps like Snapchat in the destruction of the customs and constraints of the Wahhabi religious institution in Saudi Arabia".

Please; don't put words in my mouth. I don't write sectarian flaming, and the OP is not about sectarian flaming.

As for the chopping of body parts, you also advocate for a society that buries thieves alive inside concrete blocks.
I would like to make a poll in U.S prisons: who wants a hand chop, but gets their freedom immediately afterwards?

You'll be surprised by the results.

---

(March 15, 2018 at 8:14 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: You are right. People want to be free, by nature they cannot be wahhabi. People would much rather snapchat than follow strict Islam, that is for sure. Eventually the internet will destroy all of islam.

I wouldn't say the internet will "destroy all of Islam"; but I would totally say that "knowledge" will destroy "ignorance" at anytime.

Islam itself is knowledge. Disbelief and the twisting of the original faith, which Islamic sects did, is ignorance. I don't think that people are born disbelievers; there's an inclination to believe at all time, the numbers of believers prove it in my opinion.

---

(March 15, 2018 at 8:34 am)tjakey Wrote: My take is that all people of good will, regardless of ideology, take heart when anyone or any group, using whatever means available and necessary, breaks free from oppression and institutionalized thinking. When religion is an option, where any person can walk away at any time without any repercussions imposed by those in authority, it is mostly harmless on any large scale. It was nearly inevitable that those living under the oppression of Islamic extremism would eventually revolt. That they use any technology available to aid in that effort is no surprise at all.

What will be interesting to see is how those hold on to their Muslim faith treat those who chose to walk away from it, seeing it as an ideology fundamental to their oppression. Will the faithful accept the decision or will they, in turn, strive to be the new oppressors?

I believe that the original faith itself prevented the killing of apostates, this verse of the Quran says explicitly:

Quote:Sura 2, The Quran:
( 256 )   There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

Yes; the question will be whether the religious would return to their source book; or choose Sunni/Shiite ways of terrorizing any voice of opposition.

(March 15, 2018 at 12:11 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(March 15, 2018 at 6:08 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: No? and who gave you the slightest indication that I'm that low, to let atheists go to war against Muslims?
We know what the game is: if I cry for "non Muslims" to save me; many of them -the bad ones; at least- will come with the B52s and AC130s, calling me and my brethren "sand n*****", then shoot us and the dictator alike after squeezing us out of our resources.

We saw it in Iraq.

What I'm doing is that I'm spreading awareness. Unlike many "anti theists";  I actually believe atheists are human beings just like me, and just like I learned the truth about this life online; I must repay the debt when I can.

I didn't sell my people yet; if that's what you say. Not ever gonna. But the dictators are not my people; matter in fact they are protected by non-believers !

---

And another question: how is that related to Wahhabism and Snapchat, really?

Atlass you should know better than to say crap like this having been on this board for years.

YES there are lots of fuckface idiots, but "anti-theist" does not mean anti human rights, just anti bad logic.

You have plenty of Christians and Jews and even Buddhists that hate Muslims as well. Can you find some atheists who are bigots, sure, but you wouldn't be on this board at all as long as you have if it was a hate site.

I am anti theist too. In the context that I don't think anyone in the world needs to cling to old mythology. But I am NOT out to force anyone to stop believing nor would I advocate physical force or violence to those who do believe.

I am glad to see more and more of my fellow humans on that side of the planet ditching the violent right ideology, but even with my fellow liberals whom are theists, I would even say to them, you don't need a religion to be good and do good.

The history of our ENTIRE species  worldwide has always been full of individuals whom are non violent and compassionate and sharing, and unfortunately we also have individuals and leaders whom lust for power and often use religion, to get others to keep them in power. 

No, not all who follow Islam are violent, but EVERY religion including Christianity, Jewish, Hindu and even Buddhist, have been used by the respective powers to get others to do that power's bidding, for good or bad.

Religion is a horrible way to conduct political diplomacy, even between the sub sects of the umbrella label. It isn't that you can rid the world of any religion by force, you cant, and to do so would make one a monster.

And FYI The Saudi Royal Family and their government ARE NOT supported by non-believers, they are supported by a majority Christian America. 

You are making the same error in logic by calling anyone who doesn't share your flavor of religion a "Non believer". No a non believer, an atheist, is someone who is "off" on every god claim, not just the one you hold to be true.

Trust me Atlass there is plenty of things Christians and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists do and say and claim that drive me nuts, not just Islam. Not because every religious individual is bad, but because their logic doesn't jive. 

There is lots about America that bothers me right now, and having a orange fuckface bigot in office is the worst of it. Atlass, you are always going to run into humans who hate you for no good reason, ask an atheist living in a majority Christian Country, moreso if that atheist lives in a deeply red right wing conservative state.

Not every atheist hates you. Ok?

By anti-theist I was referring to the specific type that lives on bashing religious people, causing waves of xenophobia and hate.
Yes; the greatest damage I ever seen -in terms of unleashing hate waves- is coming from the Christian institutions, and from inside Muslims communities -ironically-; the sectarian hate between Sunnies and Shiites is more damaging.

My opinion is built based on the internet; and I can't say I have a good "spam filter" to refine what I see. But one thing for certain: I know that atheists used their minds at least; instead of of submitting to the society like cattle.

The point in belief between me and others, is totally up to what the Quran states.
Believing the full book makes somebody a believer to me.
Not believing in the full book makes somebody a non-believer to me.

I was surprised to know that Biblical mentality does exist inside the political scene in the U.S. It's not just about money. In a comparison a very good man did (an Arab public figure), he mentioned how the U.S politics is different than the U.K, that Americans are "more religious". In that case, even supporting the Saudi royal family will have different meanings, because in my opinion; the biggest enemies of Islam are Saudies. They're doing Christianity a favor; TBH.

Hey; I'm not saying every atheist hates me. I already told you Brian that atheists at least don't follow blindly

(March 15, 2018 at 8:18 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(March 15, 2018 at 12:11 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Atlass you should know better than to say crap like this having been on this board for years.

YES there are lots of fuckface idiots, but "anti-theist" does not mean anti human rights, just anti bad logic.

You have plenty of Christians and Jews and even Buddhists that hate Muslims as well. Can you find some atheists who are bigots, sure, but you wouldn't be on this board at all as long as you have if it was a hate site.

I am anti theist too. In the context that I don't think anyone in the world needs to cling to old mythology. But I am NOT out to force anyone to stop believing nor would I advocate physical force or violence to those who do believe.

I am glad to see more and more of my fellow humans on that side of the planet ditching the violent right ideology, but even with my fellow liberals whom are theists, I would even say to them, you don't need a religion to be good and do good.

The history of our ENTIRE species  worldwide has always been full of individuals whom are non violent and compassionate and sharing, and unfortunately we also have individuals and leaders whom lust for power and often use religion, to get others to keep them in power. 

No, not all who follow Islam are violent, but EVERY religion including Christianity, Jewish, Hindu and even Buddhist, have been used by the respective powers to get others to do that power's bidding, for good or bad.

Religion is a horrible way to conduct political diplomacy, even between the sub sects of the umbrella label. It isn't that you can rid the world of any religion by force, you cant, and to do so would make one a monster.

And FYI The Saudi Royal Family and their government ARE NOT supported by non-believers, they are supported by a majority Christian America. 

You are making the same error in logic by calling anyone who doesn't share your flavor of religion a "Non believer". No a non believer, an atheist, is someone who is "off" on every god claim, not just the one you hold to be true.

Trust me Atlass there is plenty of things Christians and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists do and say and claim that drive me nuts, not just Islam. Not because every religious individual is bad, but because their logic doesn't jive. 

There is lots about America that bothers me right now, and having a orange fuckface bigot in office is the worst of it. Atlass, you are always going to run into humans who hate you for no good reason, ask an atheist living in a majority Christian Country, moreso if that atheist lives in a deeply red right wing conservative state.

Not every atheist hates you. Ok?

By anti-theist I was referring to the specific type that lives on bashing religious people, causing waves of xenophobia and hate.
Yes; the greatest damage I ever seen -in terms of unleashing hate waves- is coming from the Christian institutions, and from inside Muslims communities -ironically-; the sectarian hate between Sunnies and Shiites is more damaging.

My opinion is built based on the internet; and I can't say I have a good "spam filter" to refine what I see. But one thing for certain: I know that atheists used their minds at least; instead of of submitting to the society like cattle.

The point in belief between me and others, is totally up to what the Quran states.
Believing the full book makes somebody a believer to me.
Not believing in the full book makes somebody a non-believer to me.

I was surprised to know that Biblical mentality does exist inside the political scene in the U.S. It's not just about money. In a comparison a very good man did (an Arab public figure), he mentioned how the U.S politics is different than the U.K, that Americans are "more religious". In that case, even supporting the Saudi royal family will have different meanings, because in my opinion; the biggest enemies of Islam are Saudies. They're doing Christianity a favor; TBH.

Hey; I'm not saying every atheist hates me. I already told you Brian that atheists at least don't follow blindly

Yea and in doing such intended or not, you came across as accusing anyone who criticizes or blasphemes your religion as wanting to rub you out.

I explained to you that FOR ME being "anti-theist" isn't about, or should I say, should not be about promoting bigotry or violence to believers OF any religion. But yea, I am against bad ideas and old claims, just like it would bother me if you really believed Thor was the cause of lightening. 

Atlass, it would bother me if Tiberious went around every day claiming the New England Patriots beat the Eagles in the last Superbowl. That would not be a true statement because the Eagles won. 

I will stand behind you as a fellow human being as long as you are non violent. I will stand against anyone threatening you with violence or arrest merely based on your position. BUT again, that does not mean I agree with every claim you make.

No, I don't think Allah exists, or Jesus or Yahweh, or Vishnu, nor do I think Buddha had any spiritual or divine power either.

I do express my hate of bad claims. I think my species does not have to live on the claims of antiquity. But that does not mean the same type of hate you are talking about.

If you value peace, and you never give up on your belief, I can live with that, but that does not mean I won't stop saying, "that was then, this is now" or "nonsense". 

I can value human rights AND challenge bad claims at the same time.

I certainly don't speak for all atheists no, but I do speak for myself. Nobody should be demanding your arrest are threatening you with harm if you have not committed any crime of violence. 

I hate what Catholic Lady claims too, but I don't hate her, just the logic  itself. 

I think you have a far more level head than many other theists in the world, I'd only argue that you don't need a religion. But saying that does not mean I want you arrested or dead. 

I have said it many times before. I love the empathy of Malala, but no, I don't think she needs Allah to have that empathy. I love the empathy Martin Luther King Jr had, but again, I don't think he needed Jesus to have that. I love the empathy of Ann Frank, but again, I don't think she needed Yahweh to have that.

Yes I am quite blunt myself about the claims of antiquity, but I promise you, if you have not threatened harm or committed acts of violence, you deserve to be free from harm yourself even if I don't find every claim you make credible. AND THAT goes with any topic, not just that of religion.

I am just as harsh on our far right fundy Christians as you seem to be with your Wahhabi. And even with my fellow atheists, being anti theist myself, I don't like it when some atheists stupidly claim it will be possible on a planet of  7 billion to make it 100% religion free, and that isn't going to happen either.

My only task in criticism and even debate and ridicule isn't to harm my fellow humans physically, but to challenge them to think for themselves. 

You do have a voice here, and you have been here for several years now and that should say to you not everyone is against you. I see even with Christians and Jews as well, a failure to separate human rights, WHICH all of us should agree on, and the different subject of the factual credibility of the claim you make. 

I see my fellow humans as CERTAINLY being capable of compassion and non violence, but even in that context that does not mean everything that individual might claim a proven credible fact.