(March 19, 2018 at 9:21 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: Take a student that try to assimilate 100% of what is written in a book.
He may or may not assimilate 100% but even in  case he assimilate only 10% you can not say that what he has assimilate is illusory.
Why should be?
As far as the book carry the golden truth even 1% of that book carry an amount of truth therefore is foolish to say that 1% is illusory.
Can't you see how wrong you are?  

Oh joy, yet another stupid analogy.  First of all, I wasn't asserting that the 10% which is accurate is illusory, but rather that his belief that the other 90% is accurate and his grasp of the material in that 90% is illusory.  More to the point, I'm pointing out that if the student has no clear way of determining what part of his understanding is in the 10%, and which part belongs to the 90%, then his understanding of any specific part is unreliable, and any truth he asserts based on his mixed understanding cannot be counted upon.  His having free will doesn't in any way improve that situation.  But since you seem to like analogies, here's a few to counter your belief that I am wrong.

Let's suppose that you have a roommate named Bart, and that you and Bart are college students working towards a bachelors in physics.  You both are taking a class in quantum mechanics, yet the two of you aren't faring very well.  Out of the material that you study, you understand maybe 10%, and the other 90% is a mess of misunderstandings, misremembered formulas, and general failure to grasp the concepts.  One week, your professor assigns five chapters to be completed by a week from Friday.  Come that Friday, the professor administers an exam, and when you get back the results, you find that both you and Bart only got two right out of twenty questions.  Another F grade.  Your professor assigns another five chapters, and as a favor, gives you 20 extra credit questions on the new material to help you raise your grade.  You spend a week working on the extra credit material, but are having a tough go of it.  According to your analogy, given that Bart has a history of poorly understanding the material, it would make sense to turn to Bart for help with the assignment.  Would you really look forward to receiving Bart's help, or would you rather depend upon a tutor who has a demonstrated grasp of the material?  And how will "free will" improve the quality of Bart's help?

Next analogy.  You're in the hospital, recovering from a heart attack.  You feel a pain in you chest, and numbness in your left arm, and know that you are having another heart attack.  Before you're able to reach the call button to summon your nurse, everything fades to black.  Suddenly you find yourself in a room, seated at a table upon which are two flasks, one containing a red liquid, the other containing a blue liquid.  Seated opposite you is a man wearing medieval armor and a winged helmet.  He introduces himself as Odin, and explains that if you drink the blue potion, you will be extinguished from existence and exist no more.  If you drink the red potion, you will be resurrected in Valhalla and celebrated as a hero.  You must drink one or the other potion.  You start to reach for the red flask, and suddenly a flash of lightning blinds you, accompanied by a crash of thunder.  You look up, but Odin is gone.   You're dumbstruck for a moment, but you shrug it off and proceed to reach for the red potion again.  A commanding voice shouts "Stop!" halting you in mid motion.  You look up, and there again is the figure in a winged helmet who identified himself as Odin.  He explains that the red potion leads  to permanent non-existence, that you should drink the blue potion, as it will deliver you to Valhalla -- the exact opposite of what you thought he had told you earlier.  You tell him that, and he explains that you must have been talking to Loki, pretending to be Odin, and that you had been deceived.  You start to reach again, but it occurs to you that perhaps this is Loki you're talking to now, and that you should believe the first Odin instead.  You must make a choice.  You know that one of the two Odin's is deceiving you, but which one?  Which Odin do you choose to believe, and which potion do you drink?  For bonus points, explain how free will helped you determine which potion to drink?

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: As a rule reality is perceived according to the degree of your own awareness in consciousness.
NDEs are not given to give you more awareness to the point in which you reach a parallelism between yourself and God.
If that would be the case nobody would come back into their body and everybody would be one with God.
That gap between you and God will have to be attain by one own effort.
Again the understanding of how the system in heaven works is directly related to one own degree of consciousness.
We are all different so obviously we all perceive differently God consciousness but the day or stage that we reach a parallelism with God consciousness then there will not be any more differences.
That day where all the students will have learn 100% of the book then they all will have the same awareness of the content of the book.  

You didn't answer the question.  How do you determine when the welcome is over?   What exactly is a "degree of awareness in consciousness" an how does one determine whether one has a lot or a little of it?  When I'm falling asleep, my consciousness is diminished, but otherwise, my awareness doesn't seem to have a greater or lesser dimension to it.  How do we know what level of awareness we have?  You believe that you're possessed of a greater awareness, but the evidence from this thread as well as the testimony of others seems to make it clear that you're a dimwitted twat with little actual awareness.  Regardless, I think it's a truism that some people believe themselves possessed of great awareness when in fact they are not.  So it's possible to be mistaken about one's level of awareness, and as a consequence overestimate the degree to which their perceptions and beliefs accord with reality.  How can one reliably determine one's level of awareness and be certain that one is not deceived?  How does free will assure that we are not deceived by ourselves?  How can you be certain that you are not deceived?

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: As far as I understand and has been proved the consciousness only leave the body when the body die however everything is possible.
Miracles may well happen.
By the way since when atheists believe in miracles?  

It hasn't been proved that consciousness ever leaves the body, other than in the sense of ceasing to exist.  
If clairvoyance is possible in the absence of blood and life, it's not necessarily a miracle, anymore than consciousness leaving the body would be.  Regardless, disregarding your snark, you still have yet to provide any evidence that an OBE isn't a result of clairvoyance.  Avoiding the question won't make it go away.

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: Free will determine how a person is willing to get close or far from God.
The closer the person wish to be the more he-she will get not just during an NDE but even after his-her physical death.
Obviously the degree of perception depend on this factor.

Can I will myself to understand quantum mechanics?  This is just a bare assertion on your part, that a person wishing themselves to be closer results in more accurate awareness.  How would you have determined this in the first place?  If you have no way to determine the accuracy of the content in an NDE, then you have no way of determining that this or that effort results in greater accuracy.  This is just a claim you pulled from your ass and can be dismissed as such.  One might will oneself to be closer and have no effect on the accuracy of one's perceptions.  You haven't established squat from any evidence.  And again, there is the problem of gauging the actual status of one's will?  How does one determine that one is willing?  How do you determine that closeness to god is being willed?  One can't.  And even if one could, it wouldn't distinguish cases, such as between fervent Jesus seekers and fervent Yoga seekers -- how does their fervency help decide which is perceiving things accurately and which one is not?  This is just another example of you confusing your dogmatic beliefs with fact.

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: God reality can be fully understood even without years of spiritual work.
If you follow mathematics the sums lead to a positive result.
Entropy is easily dismiss as the universe is not a close container, the universe itself can not appear as per magic and to exist for billions of years or most probably for ever it need a super mind to run it so if you take all these elements in consideration plus many other then the result indicate that God is alive and well.

Yeah, I think you're full of shit.  I don't believe you.  If you have any evidence from math, any evidence that the universe isn't closed, that it need a mind to run it, and so on, then bring it on.  This looks like more spiritual/religious dogma.  If you have any actual evidence, present it.  If you're just going to make unsupported claims like the above, then forget it.  You're going too have to show your work here.

I don't think anyone believes the universe pop up as per magic.  That doesn't imply that your specific God exists.  Your goal is to provide evidence for reincarnation and karma.  Even if you establish the existence of a God for which the universe is but a mental projection, you still haven't shown that karma and reincarnation are a part of that projection.

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: That is a load of garbo yog.
Perceiving even 1% of what God say doesn't mean that what God say is wrong.

It doesn't mean that the 1% is wrong, but it sure impugns the credibility of the other 99%.  Unless one can determine which part of an NDE experience is the 1% and which part is the 99%, then one cannot rely upon any of it being true.

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: Wrong again yog.
As far as there is reincarnation there is karma.
Why God would reincarnate people again and again if these people are free from karma?
Why punish people for nothing?  
Again you should understand why 1 + 1 = 2.

Who says that being reincarnated is a punishment?  And even if it were a punishment, how do you know that God is not a sadist?  Regardless, it's perfectly possible to have reincarnation without  having karma.  There is nothing logically contradictory about that. It is nothing more than a dogmatic belief of yours that you can't have one without the other.  The fact that you consider it a necessary truth like 1 + 1 = 2 only shows that you are completely unable to distinguish between arbitrary religious beliefs and necessary truths.  Your inability to distinguish between dogma and fact explains your delusional belief that you are free of dogma, because you can't tell the two apart.

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: It may sound very very strange but also LR is a Christian.

In fact I follow Jesus as well because Jesus reached a parallelism with God and therefore merge and become God itself.
The same God of my yoga and the same God of Shiva, Krishna, Buddha, San Francis and many other.
All of them are now part of the great ocean of consciousness.
Cathleen's Christianity must be a pure Christianity which has very little to do if any with the various Christian religions that in turn have very little to do with Jesus teachings.    

Yeah, that must be it.  It couldn't be that you and she are both in error, could it?  Regardless, your unjustified certainty, the appearance of reincarnation and karma in her NDE, and her unorthodox Christianity still fail to meet the bar for evidence.  Your opinion that Yoga God is the one true God is noted and ignored.  

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: Already answered above.
In Cathleen NDE God clearly talk about reincarnation and reincarnation without karma in humans is impossible.  

You've yet to establish that there is anything reliable about the perception of reincarnation in her NDE.  As noted already, you've asserted that both accurate and inaccurate perceptions occur in an NDE, and nothing about your answers above give us a clear way of telling which is which.  And you haven't presented any evidence that reincarnation without karma is impossible.  That appears to be more unsupported religious dogma that you believe but cannot demonstrate.

You claimed that wishing to be close to God influences the accuracy of one's perception, but that claim appears to be an unfounded assertion.  If a Jesus God person wishes to be close to their God, and a Yoga God person wishes to be close to their God, and both experience their respective Gods in their NDEs, then on what basis do we determine that one is perceiving their God accurately and the other is not?  Until you answer that question, your babbling about free will is pointless.  By the way, in what units is "wishing to be close to God" measured?

Jorm you have sage like patients with this moron 

(March 19, 2018 at 9:21 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: Take a student that try to assimilate 100% of what is written in a book.
He may or may not assimilate 100% but even in  case he assimilate only 10% you can not say that what he has assimilate is illusory.
Why should be?
As far as the book carry the golden truth even 1% of that book carry an amount of truth therefore is foolish to say that 1% is illusory.
Can't you see how wrong you are?  

Oh joy, yet another stupid analogy.  First of all, I wasn't asserting that the 10% which is accurate is illusory, but rather that his belief that the other 90% is accurate and his grasp of the material in that 90% is illusory.  More to the point, I'm pointing out that if the student has no clear way of determining what part of his understanding is in the 10%, and which part belongs to the 90%, then his understanding of any specific part is unreliable, and any truth he asserts based on his mixed understanding cannot be counted upon.  His having free will doesn't in any way improve that situation.  But since you seem to like analogies, here's a few to counter your belief that I am wrong.

Let's suppose that you have a roommate named Bart, and that you and Bart are college students working towards a bachelors in physics.  You both are taking a class in quantum mechanics, yet the two of you aren't faring very well.  Out of the material that you study, you understand maybe 10%, and the other 90% is a mess of misunderstandings, misremembered formulas, and general failure to grasp the concepts.  One week, your professor assigns five chapters to be completed by a week from Friday.  Come that Friday, the professor administers an exam, and when you get back the results, you find that both you and Bart only got two right out of twenty questions.  Another F grade.  Your professor assigns another five chapters, and as a favor, gives you 20 extra credit questions on the new material to help you raise your grade.  You spend a week working on the extra credit material, but are having a tough go of it.  According to your analogy, given that Bart has a history of poorly understanding the material, it would make sense to turn to Bart for help with the assignment.  Would you really look forward to receiving Bart's help, or would you rather depend upon a tutor who has a demonstrated grasp of the material?  And how will "free will" improve the quality of Bart's help?

Next analogy.  You're in the hospital, recovering from a heart attack.  You feel a pain in you chest, and numbness in your left arm, and know that you are having another heart attack.  Before you're able to reach the call button to summon your nurse, everything fades to black.  Suddenly you find yourself in a room, seated at a table upon which are two flasks, one containing a red liquid, the other containing a blue liquid.  Seated opposite you is a man wearing medieval armor and a winged helmet.  He introduces himself as Odin, and explains that if you drink the blue potion, you will be extinguished from existence and exist no more.  If you drink the red potion, you will be resurrected in Valhalla and celebrated as a hero.  You must drink one or the other potion.  You start to reach for the red flask, and suddenly a flash of lightning blinds you, accompanied by a crash of thunder.  You look up, but Odin is gone.   You're dumbstruck for a moment, but you shrug it off and proceed to reach for the red potion again.  A commanding voice shouts "Stop!" halting you in mid motion.  You look up, and there again is the figure in a winged helmet who identified himself as Odin.  He explains that the red potion leads  to permanent non-existence, that you should drink the blue potion, as it will deliver you to Valhalla -- the exact opposite of what you thought he had told you earlier.  You tell him that, and he explains that you must have been talking to Loki, pretending to be Odin, and that you had been deceived.  You start to reach again, but it occurs to you that perhaps this is Loki you're talking to now, and that you should believe the first Odin instead.  You must make a choice.  You know that one of the two Odin's is deceiving you, but which one?  Which Odin do you choose to believe, and which potion do you drink?  For bonus points, explain how free will helped you determine which potion to drink?

So much BS and so much confusion yog.  

When you experience an NDE all the past and all your previous state of consciousness means absolutely nothing.
God can lift up to the very top your awareness as he wishes taking into due account of course your free will as already been demonstrated in Cathleen NDE.
High intellect to God means nothing so even a simple person can understand God 100%.
If however a person put his free will in between himself and God then obviously God can not be perceived in full.
That doesn't mean that whatever is perceived is wrong.
Why God would waste his time in letting people perceive something wrong.
NDEs are about learning in order to progress spiritually so God give to each particular individual what is useful for him-her.
Nothing more nothing less.
Whether the person who experience the NDE perceive God 1 or 100% that is not the issue.
The issue is that what God give to the person is 100% of what the person need.
All the rest is meaningless.

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: As a rule reality is perceived according to the degree of your own awareness in consciousness.
NDEs are not given to give you more awareness to the point in which you reach a parallelism between yourself and God.
If that would be the case nobody would come back into their body and everybody would be one with God.
That gap between you and God will have to be attain by one own effort.
Again the understanding of how the system in heaven works is directly related to one own degree of consciousness.
We are all different so obviously we all perceive differently God consciousness but the day or stage that we reach a parallelism with God consciousness then there will not be any more differences.
That day where all the students will have learn 100% of the book then they all will have the same awareness of the content of the book.

Quote:You didn't answer the question.  How do you determine when the welcome is over?   What exactly is a "degree of awareness in consciousness" an how does one determine whether one has a lot or a little of it?  When I'm falling asleep, my consciousness is diminished, but otherwise, my awareness doesn't seem to have a greater or lesser dimension to it.  How do we know what level of awareness we have?  You believe that you're possessed of a greater awareness, but the evidence from this thread as well as the testimony of others seems to make it clear that you're a dimwitted twat with little actual awareness.  Regardless, I think it's a truism that some people believe themselves possessed of great awareness when in fact they are not.  So it's possible to be mistaken about one's level of awareness, and as a consequence overestimate the degree to which their perceptions and beliefs accord with reality.  How can one reliably determine one's level of awareness and be certain that one is not deceived?  How does free will assure that we are not deceived by ourselves?  How can you be certain that you are not deceived?

One thing for sure is that I never said that my awareness in consciousness is huge so avoid to say things that I never said.
All I said is that I practice the best system to progress in spiritual awareness which is the real yoga.
That's all.
As far as to know the degree in awareness that only the supreme mastermind can tell.
If however you feel more peace and happiness within then you know that you are on the correct path.  

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: As far as I understand and has been proved the consciousness only leave the body when the body die however everything is possible.
Miracles may well happen.
By the way since when atheists believe in miracles?

Quote:It hasn't been proved that consciousness ever leaves the body, other than in the sense of ceasing to exist.

What garbage are you talking about?  
Who cease to exist?

 

Quote:If clairvoyance is possible in the absence of blood and life, it's not necessarily a miracle, anymore than consciousness leaving the body would be.  Regardless, disregarding your snark, you still have yet to provide any evidence that an OBE isn't a result of clairvoyance. Avoiding the question won't make it go away.

1) Who said that..........clairvoyance is possible in the absence of blood and life?
2) There is enough evidence to say that an NDE happen when the consciousness leave a dead body but there is zero evidence to say that OBE may happen when the consciousness is still in the alive body it is therefore up to you that propose this topic to demonstrate that clairvoyance can create an OBE.

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: Free will determine how a person is willing to get close or far from God.
The closer the person wish to be the more he-she will get not just during an NDE but even after his-her physical death.
Obviously the degree of perception depend on this factor.

Quote:Can I will myself to understand quantum mechanics?  This is just a bare assertion on your part, that a person wishing themselves to be closer results in more accurate awareness.  How would you have determined this in the first place?  If you have no way to determine the accuracy of the content in an NDE, then you have no way of determining that this or that effort results in greater accuracy.  This is just a claim you pulled from your ass and can be dismissed as such.  One might will oneself to be closer and have no effect on the accuracy of one's perceptions.  You haven't established squat from any evidence.  And again, there is the problem of gauging the actual status of one's will?  How does one determine that one is willing?  How do you determine that closeness to god is being willed?  One can't.  And even if one could, it wouldn't distinguish cases, such as between fervent Jesus seekers and fervent Yoga seekers -- how does their fervency help decide which is perceiving things accurately and which one is not?  This is just another example of you confusing your dogmatic beliefs with fact.

FOOL.

Even your country is sending satellites to other planets to better study those planets.
Yoga does the same thing although doesn't send satellites to God.
Yoga is all about reducing the distance that separate you from God in order to fully understand God beside the fact that the other main reason is to merge into Him and become one with it so the accuracy about God must be obtained by reducing the distance that separate us from Him.  

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: God reality can be fully understood even without years of spiritual work.
If you follow mathematics the sums lead to a positive result.
Entropy is easily dismiss as the universe is not a close container, the universe itself can not appear as per magic and to exist for billions of years or most probably for ever it need a super mind to run it so if you take all these elements in consideration plus many other then the result indicate that God is alive and well.

Quote:Yeah, I think you're full of shit.  I don't believe you.  If you have any evidence from math, any evidence that the universe isn't closed, that it need a mind to run it, and so on, then bring it on.  This looks like more spiritual/religious dogma.  If you have any actual evidence, present it.  If you're just going to make unsupported claims like the above, then forget it.  You're going too have to show your work here.
I don't think anyone believes the universe pop up as per magic.  That doesn't imply that your specific God exists.  Your goal is to provide evidence for reincarnation and karma.  Even if you establish the existence of a God for which the universe is but a mental projection, you still haven't shown that karma and reincarnation are a part of that projection.

Sure, you.........don't think anyone believes the universe pop up as per magic.........but at the same time atheists keep on believing that the universe doesn't need a God because entropy can keep the universe alive beside the fact that atheists have no idea how the universe got there in the first place.

You are full of garbage yog yet you keep on argue with people that at least use logic in their thinking.  

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: That is a load of garbo yog.
Perceiving even 1% of what God say doesn't mean that what God say is wrong.

Quote:It doesn't mean that the 1% is wrong, but it sure impugns the credibility of the other 99%.  Unless one can determine which part of an NDE experience is the 1% and which part is the 99%, then one cannot rely upon any of it being true.

Getting lost once again yog?  

Being aware about 1% of God nature doesn't mean that your NDE is only 1% accurate.

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: Wrong again yog.
As far as there is reincarnation there is karma.
Why God would reincarnate people again and again if these people are free from karma?
Why punish people for nothing?  
Again you should understand why 1 + 1 = 2.

Quote:Who says that being reincarnated is a punishment?

 


It is a punishment according karma laws but is not if that imply to change body in order to evolve.
Clearly you should have understood that my reply imply the topic of karma.

Quote:And even if it were a punishment, how do you know that God is not a sadist?

A teacher fail those students that haven't learn the lesson.
This has absolutely nothing to do with being a sadist.
The karma law does the same so God has nothing to do with sadism.    

Quote:Regardless, it's perfectly possible to have reincarnation without  having karma.  There is nothing logically contradictory about that. It is nothing more than a dogmatic belief of yours that you can't have one without the other.

 


True but that involve changing body in order to evolve which has nothing to do with the topic.

Quote:The fact that you consider it a necessary truth like 1 + 1 = 2 only shows that you are completely unable to distinguish between arbitrary religious beliefs and necessary truths.  Your inability to distinguish between dogma and fact explains your delusional belief that you are free of dogma, because you can't tell the two apart.

More blah, blah, blah.
Bring an example or SU.

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: It may sound very very strange but also LR is a Christian.

In fact I follow Jesus as well because Jesus reached a parallelism with God and therefore merge and become God itself.
The same God of my yoga and the same God of Shiva, Krishna, Buddha, San Francis and many other.
All of them are now part of the great ocean of consciousness.
Cathleen's Christianity must be a pure Christianity which has very little to do if any with the various Christian religions that in turn have very little to do with Jesus teachings.

Quote:Yeah, that must be it.  It couldn't be that you and she are both in error, could it?  Regardless, your unjustified certainty, the appearance of reincarnation and karma in her NDE, and her unorthodox Christianity still fail to meet the bar for evidence.  Your opinion that Yoga God is the one true God is noted and ignored.

The God of yoga is also yogini God.
Unfortunately you have put your strong free will in between you and God which make impossible for you to perceive Him.    

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: Already answered above.
In Cathleen NDE God clearly talk about reincarnation and reincarnation without karma in humans is impossible.  

Quote:You've yet to establish that there is anything reliable about the perception of reincarnation in her NDE.  As noted already, you've asserted that both accurate and inaccurate perceptions occur in an NDE, and nothing about your answers above give us a clear way of telling which is which.  And you haven't presented any evidence that reincarnation without karma is impossible.  That appears to be more unsupported religious dogma that you believe but cannot demonstrate.

You claimed that wishing to be close to God influences the accuracy of one's perception, but that claim appears to be an unfounded assertion.  If a Jesus God person wishes to be close to their God, and a Yoga God person wishes to be close to their God, and both experience their respective Gods in their NDEs, then on what basis do we determine that one is perceiving their God accurately and the other is not?  Until you answer that question, your babbling about free will is pointless.  By the way, in what units is "wishing to be close to God" measured?

Without order and justice the system would collapse.
In every country there is the police and a justice system.
Why?
You are so gullible that you never ask yourself why.
If a system of justice wouldn't be there there would be total chaos.
The universe follow the same system that is why it last and last and will last possibly for ever.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: Without order and justice the system would collapse.
In every country there is the police and a justice system.
Why?

To round up people who kicked dogs in a previous life and rape them for it....?

I'll be honest, that doesn't sound like an entirely inaccurate description of police forces in localities that believe in this karma bullshit. Gotta keep those untouchables in their place...for all of their previous life crimes.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 19, 2018 at 9:21 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Oh joy, yet another stupid analogy.  First of all, I wasn't asserting that the 10% which is accurate is illusory, but rather that his belief that the other 90% is accurate and his grasp of the material in that 90% is illusory.  More to the point, I'm pointing out that if the student has no clear way of determining what part of his understanding is in the 10%, and which part belongs to the 90%, then his understanding of any specific part is unreliable, and any truth he asserts based on his mixed understanding cannot be counted upon.  His having free will doesn't in any way improve that situation.  But since you seem to like analogies, here's a few to counter your belief that I am wrong.

Let's suppose that you have a roommate named Bart, and that you and Bart are college students working towards a bachelors in physics.  You both are taking a class in quantum mechanics, yet the two of you aren't faring very well.  Out of the material that you study, you understand maybe 10%, and the other 90% is a mess of misunderstandings, misremembered formulas, and general failure to grasp the concepts.  One week, your professor assigns five chapters to be completed by a week from Friday.  Come that Friday, the professor administers an exam, and when you get back the results, you find that both you and Bart only got two right out of twenty questions.  Another F grade.  Your professor assigns another five chapters, and as a favor, gives you 20 extra credit questions on the new material to help you raise your grade.  You spend a week working on the extra credit material, but are having a tough go of it.  According to your analogy, given that Bart has a history of poorly understanding the material, it would make sense to turn to Bart for help with the assignment.  Would you really look forward to receiving Bart's help, or would you rather depend upon a tutor who has a demonstrated grasp of the material?  And how will "free will" improve the quality of Bart's help?

Next analogy.  You're in the hospital, recovering from a heart attack.  You feel a pain in you chest, and numbness in your left arm, and know that you are having another heart attack.  Before you're able to reach the call button to summon your nurse, everything fades to black.  Suddenly you find yourself in a room, seated at a table upon which are two flasks, one containing a red liquid, the other containing a blue liquid.  Seated opposite you is a man wearing medieval armor and a winged helmet.  He introduces himself as Odin, and explains that if you drink the blue potion, you will be extinguished from existence and exist no more.  If you drink the red potion, you will be resurrected in Valhalla and celebrated as a hero.  You must drink one or the other potion.  You start to reach for the red flask, and suddenly a flash of lightning blinds you, accompanied by a crash of thunder.  You look up, but Odin is gone.   You're dumbstruck for a moment, but you shrug it off and proceed to reach for the red potion again.  A commanding voice shouts "Stop!" halting you in mid motion.  You look up, and there again is the figure in a winged helmet who identified himself as Odin.  He explains that the red potion leads  to permanent non-existence, that you should drink the blue potion, as it will deliver you to Valhalla -- the exact opposite of what you thought he had told you earlier.  You tell him that, and he explains that you must have been talking to Loki, pretending to be Odin, and that you had been deceived.  You start to reach again, but it occurs to you that perhaps this is Loki you're talking to now, and that you should believe the first Odin instead.  You must make a choice.  You know that one of the two Odin's is deceiving you, but which one?  Which Odin do you choose to believe, and which potion do you drink?  For bonus points, explain how free will helped you determine which potion to drink?

So much BS and so much confusion yog.  

When you experience an NDE all the past and all your previous state of consciousness means absolutely nothing.

Given that you previously said that a person's prior beliefs condition what they see in an NDE, you're simply contradicting yourself here.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: God can lift up to the very top your awareness as he wishes taking into due account of course your free will as already been demonstrated in Cathleen NDE.

You didn't demonstrate anything with the Cathleen NDE other than that you can make unwarranted assumptions. That Cathleen perceived the same as what you believe to be true is not evidence that she was perceiving the reality accurately. You have no way of knowing what her free will wanted nor what God wants based solely on the NDE itself. You're smuggling in those assumptions from elsewhere and that invalidates any conclusion you've made.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: High intellect to God means nothing so even a simple person can understand God 100%.
If however a person put his free will in between himself and God then obviously God can not be perceived in full.

"Can" and "do" are worlds apart. I could give a rat's ass what you believe God "can" do as opposed to what he has actually done. You cannot show that God was revealing an accurate picture of the afterlife to Cathleen, and that is what you need to do to claim that her account of reincarnation and karma is correct. You have no way of determining the "state" of someone's free will in relation to the truth if you cannot first demonstrate the truth without relation to their will. You don't know the truth independent of an NDE, so you can't claim that this or that exercise of will hurt or helped determine the accuracy of their NDE. These are rather obvious epistemological problems, yet you appear to be completely unaware that they even are problems.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: That doesn't mean that whatever is perceived is wrong.
Why God would waste his time in letting people perceive something wrong.

In George Ritchie's NDE, he met Jesus and Jesus showed him that the afterlife consists of four kingdoms to which the person will go. There is no reincarnation in his NDE and so if what you claim about reincarnation is right, then what Ritchie perceived is wrong or inaccurate. The definition of accurate is "correct in all details," so any difference from the actual reality in any detail is therefore inaccurate. You don't get around this point by claiming unsupported things about God's motives. You claimed that what people perceive in the afterlife is a reflection of what they believed before death. If they perceive Jesus God and no reincarnation, and there is reincarnation, then their perception is NOT correct in all details. Ritchie says in the video that Jesus said that "if you've seen me [then] you've seen what follows," so unless no reincarnation follows death, then Ritchie's perceptions were wrong.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: NDEs are about learning in order to progress spiritually so God give to each particular individual what is useful for him-her.
Nothing more nothing less.
Whether the person who experience the NDE perceive God 1 or 100% that is not the issue.
The issue is that what God give to the person is 100% of what the person need.
All the rest is meaningless.

No, the issue is whether the content of an NDE can be relied upon as an accurate representation of the underlying reality. According to you, George Ritchie's NDE was not accurate. You don't get around this point by muttering a bunch of mumbo jumbo about what you think God wants or what you think God is doing for the person in an NDE as those are all just guesses on your part, they are not evidence of anything. You have no evidence that what you are saying is true about NDEs, and I can equally assert something otherwise with just as much justification. Whether or not NDE content is accurate is the central issue in your being able to demonstrate the existence of karma and reincarnation with them. All this idle speculation about God and the purpose of NDEs is meaningless and quite beside the point.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: As a rule reality is perceived according to the degree of your own awareness in consciousness.
NDEs are not given to give you more awareness to the point in which you reach a parallelism between yourself and God.
If that would be the case nobody would come back into their body and everybody would be one with God.
That gap between you and God will have to be attain by one own effort.
Again the understanding of how the system in heaven works is directly related to one own degree of consciousness.
We are all different so obviously we all perceive differently God consciousness but the day or stage that we reach a parallelism with God consciousness then there will not be any more differences.
That day where all the students will have learn 100% of the book then they all will have the same awareness of the content of the book.

Quote:You didn't answer the question.  How do you determine when the welcome is over?   What exactly is a "degree of awareness in consciousness" an how does one determine whether one has a lot or a little of it?  When I'm falling asleep, my consciousness is diminished, but otherwise, my awareness doesn't seem to have a greater or lesser dimension to it.  How do we know what level of awareness we have?  You believe that you're possessed of a greater awareness, but the evidence from this thread as well as the testimony of others seems to make it clear that you're a dimwitted twat with little actual awareness.  Regardless, I think it's a truism that some people believe themselves possessed of great awareness when in fact they are not.  So it's possible to be mistaken about one's level of awareness, and as a consequence overestimate the degree to which their perceptions and beliefs accord with reality.  How can one reliably determine one's level of awareness and be certain that one is not deceived?  How does free will assure that we are not deceived by ourselves?  How can you be certain that you are not deceived?

One thing for sure is that I never said that my awareness in consciousness is huge so avoid to say things that I never said.
All I said is that I practice the best system to progress in spiritual awareness which is the real yoga.
That's all.
As far as to know the degree in awareness that only the supreme mastermind can tell.
If however you feel more peace and happiness within then you know that you are on the correct path.

First, it doesn't follow that because one experiences peace and happiness within that it necessarily follows that they are on the correct path. Accomplished Buddhists feel peace and happiness within, yet according to you, their path does not lead to spiritual extinction as they believe. So obviously peace and happiness mean squat. Nazis in world war II felt a sense of peace and happiness and feeling of meaning as a consequence of being members of a fascist state, that doesn't in any way indicate that they were on the "correct" path. To know something is to have justified true belief about the thing. Nothing about a feeling of peace and happiness justifies your belief that you are on the correct path, so you do not in fact "know" any such thing. Some studies show that meditation by itself  leads to peace and happiness, regardless of the path that the person is on. That you believe there is a link between the two is just more evidence of your foolishness.

And you still did not answer the question of how a person knows that the welcome is over in an NDE. Given that you were the one who brought up this welcome nonsense, it's odd that you continue avoiding answering the question. I could care less what you think your feelings of peace and happiness mean as you're a deluded twat. You have no actual evidence for your belief about what it means.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: As far as I understand and has been proved the consciousness only leave the body when the body die however everything is possible.
Miracles may well happen.
By the way since when atheists believe in miracles?

Quote:It hasn't been proved that consciousness ever leaves the body, other than in the sense of ceasing to exist.

What garbage are you talking about?  
Who cease to exist?  

I was simply pointing out that the expression "leave the body" was ambiguous in that it could mean either consciousness ceasing to exist, or, that consciousness has physically gone elsewhere.

 

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote:

Quote:If clairvoyance is possible in the absence of blood and life, it's not necessarily a miracle, anymore than consciousness leaving the body would be.  Regardless, disregarding your snark, you still have yet to provide any evidence that an OBE isn't a result of clairvoyance. Avoiding the question won't make it go away.

1) Who said that..........clairvoyance is possible in the absence of blood and life?
2) There is enough evidence to say that an NDE happen when the consciousness leave a dead body but there is zero evidence to say that OBE may happen when the consciousness is still in the alive body it is therefore up to you that propose this topic to demonstrate that clairvoyance can create an OBE.  

You're trying to reverse the burden of proof again. You made the claim that OBEs demonstrate that consciousness leaves the body. It's up to you to demonstrate that alternative explanations like clairvoyance are impossible. I don't have to prove that it is possible. As long as it's consistent with the evidence, you have to rule it out. You haven't done so, and so your claim that the evidence necessarily shows that consciousness leaves the body has not been demonstrated. Until you demonstrate that clairvoyance is not possible, then your claim that there is enough evidence to show that consciousness leaves the body is false, because every scrap of evidence for that is fully compatible with clairvoyance.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: Free will determine how a person is willing to get close or far from God.
The closer the person wish to be the more he-she will get not just during an NDE but even after his-her physical death.
Obviously the degree of perception depend on this factor.

Quote:Can I will myself to understand quantum mechanics?  This is just a bare assertion on your part, that a person wishing themselves to be closer results in more accurate awareness.  How would you have determined this in the first place?  If you have no way to determine the accuracy of the content in an NDE, then you have no way of determining that this or that effort results in greater accuracy.  This is just a claim you pulled from your ass and can be dismissed as such.  One might will oneself to be closer and have no effect on the accuracy of one's perceptions.  You haven't established squat from any evidence.  And again, there is the problem of gauging the actual status of one's will?  How does one determine that one is willing?  How do you determine that closeness to god is being willed?  One can't.  And even if one could, it wouldn't distinguish cases, such as between fervent Jesus seekers and fervent Yoga seekers -- how does their fervency help decide which is perceiving things accurately and which one is not?  This is just another example of you confusing your dogmatic beliefs with fact.

FOOL.

Even your country is sending satellites to other planets to better study those planets.
Yoga does the same thing although doesn't send satellites to God.
Yoga is all about reducing the distance that separate you from God in order to fully understand God beside the fact that the other main reason is to merge into Him and become one with it so the accuracy about God must be obtained by reducing the distance that separate us from Him.  

None of this is evidence of reincarnation or karma. That you have beliefs about what you are accomplishing through you practice of yoga is a fact of which I have no doubt. However your beliefs are not themselves evidence of anything other than that you hold such beliefs. They are not evidence that yoga brings you closer to God. Again, as with the question of will discussed above, you have to be in possession of the truth first before you can show that this or that practice correlates with discovering the truth. You keep omitting the step of first determining truth independent of yoga before you can determine that yoga is associated with truth. You have not done any such thing. This entire paragraph about "what yoga does" is just a digression which means nothing.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: God reality can be fully understood even without years of spiritual work.
If you follow mathematics the sums lead to a positive result.
Entropy is easily dismiss as the universe is not a close container, the universe itself can not appear as per magic and to exist for billions of years or most probably for ever it need a super mind to run it so if you take all these elements in consideration plus many other then the result indicate that God is alive and well.

Quote:Yeah, I think you're full of shit.  I don't believe you.  If you have any evidence from math, any evidence that the universe isn't closed, that it need a mind to run it, and so on, then bring it on.  This looks like more spiritual/religious dogma.  If you have any actual evidence, present it.  If you're just going to make unsupported claims like the above, then forget it.  You're going too have to show your work here.
I don't think anyone believes the universe pop up as per magic.  That doesn't imply that your specific God exists.  Your goal is to provide evidence for reincarnation and karma.  Even if you establish the existence of a God for which the universe is but a mental projection, you still haven't shown that karma and reincarnation are a part of that projection.

Sure, you.........don't think anyone believes the universe pop up as per magic.........but at the same time atheists keep on believing that the universe doesn't need a God because entropy can keep the universe alive beside the fact that atheists have no idea how the universe got there in the first place.

You are full of garbage yog yet you keep on argue with people that at least use logic in their thinking.  

Your irrational opinion is noted. I also note that despite the bold claims in your last post about what math and so on show about god, you haven't bothered to present any of that evidence. Put up or shut up. This thread is not about what atheists believe, it's all about you and your claims that you have evidence of god, karma, and reincarnation. Pony up or admit defeat.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: That is a load of garbo yog.
Perceiving even 1% of what God say doesn't mean that what God say is wrong.

Quote:It doesn't mean that the 1% is wrong, but it sure impugns the credibility of the other 99%.  Unless one can determine which part of an NDE experience is the 1% and which part is the 99%, then one cannot rely upon any of it being true.

Getting lost once again yog?  

Being aware about 1% of God nature doesn't mean that your NDE is only 1% accurate.

No, but the evidence from NDEs as well as your prior claims do mean that.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: Wrong again yog.
As far as there is reincarnation there is karma.
Why God would reincarnate people again and again if these people are free from karma?
Why punish people for nothing?  
Again you should understand why 1 + 1 = 2.

Quote:Who says that being reincarnated is a punishment?

 


It is a punishment according karma laws but is not if that imply to change body in order to evolve.
Clearly you should have understood that my reply imply the topic of karma.

I really could give a shit about what you believe to be the laws of karma, so far you haven't shown that there even are any.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote:

Quote:And even if it were a punishment, how do you know that God is not a sadist?

A teacher fail those students that haven't learn the lesson.
This has absolutely nothing to do with being a sadist.
The karma law does the same so God has nothing to do with sadism.    

More analogies you can't substantiate and assertions you can't justify. You say God is like a teacher, I say that God is like a BDSM Dominatrix. Your asserting that God is like this or that is not evidence that God is like this or that, it is only your opinion that he is. Opinions are like assholes, everone's got one. And your opinion that "karma law" is like that is equally summarily dismissed.

Do you have any actual evidence for your opinions or is this going to become a game where you assert things without evidence and I dismiss them for lack of evidence? Ten days ago you claimed that NDEs "obviously" entail reincarnation, and what has followed is your complete inability to provide evidence for reincarnation that unambiguously entails reincarnation. You're not making any headway at all and seem content to tread water, addressing irrelevant side issues and digression to the omission of any actual evidence.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote:

Quote:Regardless, it's perfectly possible to have reincarnation without  having karma.  There is nothing logically contradictory about that. It is nothing more than a dogmatic belief of yours that you can't have one without the other.

 
True but that involve changing body in order to evolve which has nothing to do with the topic.

Whatever that means. Regardless, QED.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote:

Quote:The fact that you consider it a necessary truth like 1 + 1 = 2 only shows that you are completely unable to distinguish between arbitrary religious beliefs and necessary truths.  Your inability to distinguish between dogma and fact explains your delusional belief that you are free of dogma, because you can't tell the two apart.

More blah, blah, blah.
Bring an example or SU.

I already have. That you're a deluded twat who mistakenly believes that he is not under the influence of dogma is not a secret that you've managed to keep under your hat.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: It may sound very very strange but also LR is a Christian.

In fact I follow Jesus as well because Jesus reached a parallelism with God and therefore merge and become God itself.
The same God of my yoga and the same God of Shiva, Krishna, Buddha, San Francis and many other.
All of them are now part of the great ocean of consciousness.
Cathleen's Christianity must be a pure Christianity which has very little to do if any with the various Christian religions that in turn have very little to do with Jesus teachings.

Quote:Yeah, that must be it.  It couldn't be that you and she are both in error, could it?  Regardless, your unjustified certainty, the appearance of reincarnation and karma in her NDE, and her unorthodox Christianity still fail to meet the bar for evidence.  Your opinion that Yoga God is the one true God is noted and ignored.

The God of yoga is also yogini God.
Unfortunately you have put your strong free will in between you and God which make impossible for you to perceive Him.    

And you know what my free will has done by what method? That I disagree with you about the nature of reality is not evidence that my free will has handicapped my perception in any way. Your claim is entirely dependent upon your being correct in your beliefs about what reality actually is, and we have no indication that this is the case. Quite the contrary, despite my patient tutelage and interrogation, you haven't managed to provide any clear evidence of your beliefs about reincarnation and karma. As cornerstones of your belief, that doesn't bode well for the rest of your beliefs.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 19, 2018 at 11:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: Already answered above.
In Cathleen NDE God clearly talk about reincarnation and reincarnation without karma in humans is impossible.  

Quote:You've yet to establish that there is anything reliable about the perception of reincarnation in her NDE.  As noted already, you've asserted that both accurate and inaccurate perceptions occur in an NDE, and nothing about your answers above give us a clear way of telling which is which.  And you haven't presented any evidence that reincarnation without karma is impossible.  That appears to be more unsupported religious dogma that you believe but cannot demonstrate.

You claimed that wishing to be close to God influences the accuracy of one's perception, but that claim appears to be an unfounded assertion.  If a Jesus God person wishes to be close to their God, and a Yoga God person wishes to be close to their God, and both experience their respective Gods in their NDEs, then on what basis do we determine that one is perceiving their God accurately and the other is not?  Until you answer that question, your babbling about free will is pointless.  By the way, in what units is "wishing to be close to God" measured?

Without order and justice the system would collapse.
In every country there is the police and a justice system.
Why?
You are so gullible that you never ask yourself why.
If a system of justice wouldn't be there there would be total chaos.
The universe follow the same system that is why it last and last and will last possibly for ever.

Even if I accepted your analogy at face value, that doesn't entail that a God for whom the universe is a mental projection is the only way to achieve order. There are primitive Indians in the Amazon who have no system of law and justice, yet they seem to manage fine without descending into chaos. This is accomplished largely through habit and convention. If the universe has such habits and convention in the form of natural laws, then the imposition of a universal law giver is not needed.

Regardless, the universe isn't necessarily like a country which needs laws and such to maintain order, and the chaos which results from the lack of them is a social and moral chaos, not a literal one. You have no evidence that we do not exist in a universe in which "moral chaos" is the reality; you only want the universe to demonstrate a moral order. Your desire for justice does not demonstrate that universal justice exists. So your analogy is more a wish on your part than anything. Your beliefs about what would result in a universe without justice are unfounded. Chaos, in the sense of randomness, is not a natural consequence of a universe without moral order.

Again, you're falling off the path in your attempt to prove karma and reincarnation.

Quote:NDE’s confirm the Existence of Heaven.

Very often people who have had near-death experiences describe seeing cities of light of inexplicable grandeur much like the new Jerusalem. During an NDE, George Ritchie was “shown a distant city made of brilliant light. Its description resembled the city described in the Book of Revelation.”[i] Don Piper, an ordained minister since 1985, had a similar experience. After being brought back to life after a near-fatal car accident, Don describes having seen a city of immense beauty strongly resembling the new Jerusalem of Revelation 21. In his book 90 Minutes in Heaven, he writes:

One thing did surprise me: On earth, whenever I thought of heaven, I anticipated that one day I’d see a gate made of pearls, because the Bible refers to the gates of pearl.[ii] The gate wasn’t made of pearls, but was pearlescent—perhaps iridescent may be more descriptive. To me, it looked as if someone had spread pearl icing on a cake. The gate glowed and shimmered. I paused and stared at the glorious hues and shimmering shades. The luminescence dazzled me, and I would have been content to stay at that spot. Yet I stepped forward as if being escorted into God’s presence. I paused just outside the gate, and I could see inside. It was like a city with paved streets. To my amazement, they had been constructed of literal gold. If you could imagine a street paved with gold bricks, that’s as close as I can come to describing what lay inside the gate. Everything I saw was bright—the brightest colors my eyes had ever beheld—so powerful that no earthly human could take in this brilliance.[iii]

Not only do NDE’s substantiate the existence of heaven, they also confirm the existence of more than one heavenly realm as indicated in Ephesians 1:3: “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms . . .”[iv] and 2 Corinthians 12:2: “I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven.” NDE’s confirm the existence of a multi-dimensional afterlife with several heavenly realms. Concerning the existence of multiple heavenly dimensions, Dr. Harold A. Widdison and Dr. Craig Lundahl, two NDE researchers, state, “But no matter what level or city a person qualifies for, each city is so superior to any on Earth that it is indescribable, and each succeeding realm is indescribably better than that immediately below it.”[v]

Near-Death Experiences confirm Biblical Theology

(March 20, 2018 at 3:00 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: So much BS and so much confusion yog.  

When you experience an NDE all the past and all your previous state of consciousness means absolutely nothing.

Given that you previously said that a person's prior beliefs condition what they see in an NDE, you're simply contradicting yourself here.

Not at all yog.
You are confusing    all this with the NDE welcome.
Read again what I did write.  

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: God can lift up to the very top your awareness as he wishes taking into due account of course your free will as already been demonstrated in Cathleen NDE.

Quote:You didn't demonstrate anything with the Cathleen NDE other than that you can make unwarranted assumptions.  That Cathleen perceived the same as what you believe to be true is not evidence that she was perceiving the reality accurately.  You have no way of knowing what her free will wanted nor what God wants based solely on the NDE itself.  You're smuggling in those assumptions from elsewhere and that invalidates any conclusion you've made.

Idiot.
If you read properly her NDE it clearly stated that she come back into her body BECAUSE she still had feelings for her parents.
That is the fee will in action.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: High intellect to God means nothing so even a simple person can understand God 100%.
If however a person put his free will in between himself and God then obviously God can not be perceived in full.

Quote:"Can" and "do" are worlds apart.  I could give a rat's ass what you believe God "can" do as opposed to what he has actually done.  You cannot show that God was revealing an accurate picture of the afterlife to Cathleen, and that is what you need to do to claim that her account of reincarnation and karma is correct.  You have no way of determining the "state" of someone's free will in relation to the truth if you cannot first demonstrate the truth without relation to their will.  You don't know the truth independent  of an NDE, so you can't claim that this or that exercise of will hurt or helped determine the accuracy of their NDE.  These are rather obvious epistemological problems, yet you appear to be completely unaware that they even are problems.

Of course if you do not believe that God exist then for you is all BS.
No need to go any further then.
That is quite bizarre because on one hand you say that you never said that NDEs are BS but on the other hand you dismiss NDEs at every step and God reality at the same time.
It look like you are in the middle of the great ocean not knowing where to go.
Make up your mind yog.  

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: That doesn't mean that whatever is perceived is wrong.
Why God would waste his time in letting people perceive something wrong.

Quote:In George Ritchie's NDE, he met Jesus and Jesus showed him that the afterlife consists of four kingdoms to which the person will go.  There is no reincarnation in his NDE and so if what you claim about reincarnation is right, then what Ritchie perceived is wrong or inaccurate.  The definition of accurate is "correct in all details," so any difference from the actual reality in any detail is therefore inaccurate.  You don't get around this point by claiming unsupported things about God's motives.  You claimed that what people perceive in the afterlife is a reflection of what they believed before death.  If they perceive Jesus God and no reincarnation, and there is reincarnation, then their perception is NOT correct in all details.  Ritchie says in the video that Jesus said that "if you've seen me [then] you've seen what follows," so unless no reincarnation follows death, then Ritchie's perceptions were wrong.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with his NDE.
It is you that didn't get it.
Go through again yog and you will get it if of course you stop being a total nonsense.
Reincarnation is there.
In fact God shown as Jesus explain clearly what the afterlife is all about.
Kingdoms are dimensions which reflect each being awareness so according each individual awareness they will end up in a particular dimension.
This is about reincarnation yog.
In his NDE God doesn't say that these kingdom are final yet you deduce that they are.
How stupid can you be yog?  

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: NDEs are about learning in order to progress spiritually so God give to each particular individual what is useful for him-her.
Nothing more nothing less.
Whether the person who experience the NDE perceive God 1 or 100% that is not the issue.
The issue is that what God give to the person is 100% of what the person need.
All the rest is meaningless.

Quote:No, the issue is whether the content of an NDE can be relied upon as an accurate representation of the underlying reality.  According to you, George Ritchie's NDE was not accurate.  You don't get around this point by muttering a bunch of mumbo jumbo about what you think God wants or what you think God is doing for the person in an NDE as those are all just guesses on your part, they are not evidence of anything.  You have no evidence that what you are saying is true about NDEs, and I can equally assert something otherwise with just as much justification.  Whether or not NDE content is accurate is the central issue in your being able to demonstrate the existence of karma and reincarnation with them.  All this idle speculation about God and the purpose of NDEs is meaningless and quite beside the point.

You keep on deducing things that never existed.
Your imagination is way way out of control yog.
Look after your health yog.    

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: One thing for sure is that I never said that my awareness in consciousness is huge so avoid to say things that I never said.
All I said is that I practice the best system to progress in spiritual awareness which is the real yoga.
That's all.
As far as to know the degree in awareness that only the supreme mastermind can tell.
If however you feel more peace and happiness within then you know that you are on the correct path.

Quote:First, it doesn't follow that because one experiences peace and happiness within that it necessarily follows that they are on the correct path.  Accomplished Buddhists feel peace and happiness within, yet according to you, their path does not lead to spiritual extinction as they believe.  So obviously peace and happiness mean squat.  Nazis in world war II felt a sense of peace and happiness and feeling of meaning as a consequence of being members of a fascist state, that doesn't in any way indicate that they were on the "correct" path.  To know something is to have justified true belief about the thing.  Nothing about a feeling of peace and happiness justifies your belief that you are on the correct path, so you do not in fact "know" any such thing.  Some studies show that meditation by itself  leads to peace and happiness, regardless of the path that the person is on.  That you believe there is a link between the two is just more evidence of your foolishness.

It really depend on temporary peace which can be achieved with a glass of wine or a drug or any other artificial way or permanent peace of mind which can only be achieved with hard spiritual work.
Obviously my case is the latter but I guess you never thought about that yog, did you?

Quote:And you still did not answer  the question of how a person knows that the welcome is over in an NDE.  Given that you were the one who brought up this welcome nonsense, it's odd that you continue avoiding answering the question.  I could care less what you think your feelings of peace and happiness mean as you're a deluded twat.  You have no actual evidence for your belief about what it means.

Wrong once again yog.
Your problem (actually one of your many problem ) relate to the fact that you fail to understand what I and other people did write.
What I did write is that each individual has his own free will more or less pronounced so obviously his her relation with God may vary.
A welcome is only the first part of any NDE and means very very little in term of acquiring knowledge from God.
If a particular person is very strong in believing that Jesus is the real God then God will show in Jesus image during all the NDE.
If on the other hand a person did not have any previous belief than God may show as pure light during all the NDE.
All this is pure and simple futility.
It is the knowledge that God give the only important thing.
All the rest mean very little.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: What garbage are you talking about?
Who cease to exist?  

Quote:I was simply pointing out that the expression "leave the body" was ambiguous in that it could mean either consciousness ceasing to exist, or, that consciousness has physically gone elsewhere.

A bit like moving the calm water for no reason, isn't it yog?

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: 1) Who said that..........clairvoyance is possible in the absence of blood and life?
2) There is enough evidence to say that an NDE happen when the consciousness leave a dead body but there is zero evidence to say that OBE may happen when the consciousness is still in the alive body it is therefore up to you that propose this topic to demonstrate that clairvoyance can create an OBE.  

Quote:You're trying to reverse the burden of proof again.  You made the claim that OBEs demonstrate that consciousness leaves the body.  It's up to you to demonstrate that alternative explanations like clairvoyance are impossible.  I don't have to prove that it is possible.  As long as it's consistent with the evidence, you have to rule it out.  You haven't done so, and so your claim that the evidence necessarily shows that consciousness leaves the body has not been demonstrated.  Until you demonstrate that clairvoyance is not possible, then your claim that there is enough evidence to show that consciousness leaves the body is false, because every scrap of evidence for that is fully compatible with clairvoyance.

You are the one who brought up the clairvoyance topic not me so is up to you to demonstrate your point not me.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: FOOL.

Even your country is sending satellites to other planets to better study those planets.
Yoga does the same thing although doesn't send satellites to God.
Yoga is all about reducing the distance that separate you from God in order to fully understand God beside the fact that the other main reason is to merge into Him and become one with it so the accuracy about God must be obtained by reducing the distance that separate us from Him.  

Quote:None of this is evidence of reincarnation or karma.  That you have beliefs about what you are accomplishing through you practice of yoga is a fact of which I have no doubt.  However your beliefs are not themselves evidence of anything other than that you hold such beliefs. They are not evidence that yoga brings you closer to God.  Again, as with the question of will discussed above, you have to be in possession of the truth first before you can show that this or that practice correlates with discovering the truth.  You keep omitting the step of first determining truth independent of yoga before you can determine that yoga is associated with truth.  You have not done any such thing.  This entire paragraph about "what yoga does" is just a digression which means nothing.

Practice give you the evidence that yoga bring you close to God.
We are made of consciousness-energy.
God also.
How do I know?
By practicing yoga more and more awareness come to the surface and more is within waiting to come to the surface.
The total amount of consciousness is God so when you are able to bring to the surface all the consciousness within you are God.
Of course this awareness will come in you in some next reincarnation considering that at the moment as I already said you put a strong negative free will between yourself and God.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: Sure, you.........don't think anyone believes the universe pop up as per magic.........but at the same time atheists keep on believing that the universe doesn't need a God because entropy can keep the universe alive beside the fact that atheists have no idea how the universe got there in the first place.

You are full of garbage yog yet you keep on argue with people that at least use logic in their thinking.  

Quote:Your irrational opinion is noted.  I also note that despite the bold claims in your last post  about what math and so on show about god, you haven't bothered to present any of that evidence.  Put up or shut up.  This thread is not about what atheists believe, it's all about you and your claims that you have evidence of god, karma, and reincarnation.   Pony up or admit defeat.

Me irrational.

Atheists say that there is no need for God because entropy can do the job instead.
Are you kidding me?
And what about all the rosary of atheists dogmas?

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: Getting lost once again yog?  
Being aware about 1% of God nature doesn't mean that your NDE is only 1% accurate.

Quote:No, but the evidence from NDEs as well as your prior claims do mean that.

Garbage yog.
An NDE can be accurate without the need to understand 100% of God nature.
NDE are there to give spiritual guidance not to elevate you to God level.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote:  It is a punishment according karma laws but is not if that imply to change body in order to evolve.
Clearly you should have understood that my reply imply the topic of karma.

Quote:I really could give a shit about what you believe to be the laws of karma, so far you haven't shown that there even are any.

As the consciousness is evidence that energy is there and the other way around also reincarnation is evidence that karma is there.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: A teacher fail those students that haven't learn the lesson.
This has absolutely nothing to do with being a sadist.
The karma law does the same so God has nothing to do with sadism.   

Quote:More analogies you can't substantiate and assertions you can't justify.  You say God is like a teacher, I say that God is like a BDSM Dominatrix.  Your asserting that God is like this or that is not evidence that God is like this or that, it is only your opinion that he is. Opinions are like assholes, everone's got one.  And your opinion that "karma law" is like that is equally summarily dismissed.
Do you have any actual evidence for your opinions or is this going to become a game where you assert things without evidence and I dismiss them for lack of evidence?  Ten days ago you claimed that NDEs "obviously" entail reincarnation, and what has followed is your complete inability to provide evidence for reincarnation that unambiguously entails reincarnation.  You're not making any headway at all and seem content to tread water, addressing irrelevant side issues and digression to the omission of any actual evidence.

Cathleen NDE is one of the many NDE that clearly prove reincarnation.
Read it again (when you are awake of course).  

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: More blah, blah, blah.
Bring an example or SU.

Quote:I already have.  That you're a deluded twat who mistakenly believes that he is not under the influence of dogma is not a secret that you've managed to keep under your hat.

So no example, isn't it yog?  

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: The God of yoga is also yogini God.
Unfortunately you have put your strong free will in between you and God which make impossible for you to perceive Him.

Quote:And you know what my free will has done by what method?  That I disagree with you about the nature of reality is not evidence that my free will has handicapped my perception in any way.  Your claim is entirely dependent upon your being correct in your beliefs about what reality actually is, and we have no indication that this is the case.  Quite the contrary, despite my patient tutelage and interrogation, you haven't managed to provide any clear evidence of your beliefs about reincarnation and karma.  As cornerstones of your belief, that doesn't bode well for the rest of your beliefs.

Cathleen NDE clearly talk about reincarnation.
Read it again.

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: Without order and justice the system would collapse.
In every country there is the police and a justice system.
Why?
You are so gullible that you never ask yourself why.
If a system of justice wouldn't be there there would be total chaos.
The universe follow the same system that is why it last and last and will last possibly for ever.

Quote:Even if I accepted your analogy at face value, that doesn't entail that a God for whom the universe is a mental projection is the only way to achieve order.  There are primitive Indians in the Amazon who have no system of law and justice, yet they seem to manage fine without descending into chaos.  This is accomplished largely through habit and convention.  If the universe has such habits and convention in the form of natural laws, then the imposition of a universal law giver is not needed.  

Regardless, the universe isn't necessarily like a country which needs laws and such to maintain order, and the chaos which results from the lack of them is a social and moral chaos, not a literal one.  You have no evidence that we do not exist in a universe in which "moral chaos" is the reality; you only want the universe to demonstrate a moral order.  Your desire for justice does not demonstrate that universal justice exists.  So your analogy is more a wish on your part than anything.  Your beliefs about what would result in a universe without justice are unfounded.  Chaos, in the sense of randomness, is not a natural consequence of a universe without moral order.
Again, you're falling off the path in your attempt to prove karma and reincarnation.

Sure, I can not bring you any evidence but you can find tons of evidence when you see people starving or being killed or born with disabilities.
There are millions and millions of them.
All around the planet but you are so so stupid to think that all this is due to bad luck.  

(March 19, 2018 at 8:54 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 18, 2018 at 11:44 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote: All that karma nonsense is your cockeyed belief not mine. According to your cockeyed belief, every insult you hurl here is adding to your negative karma.

Got a problem with that? Tough. You are the one who believes you are reincarnating. Probably as a cockroach. Maybe an amoeba. You have only yourself to blame.

As for myself, since I am immune to all of that kind of superstitious baloney, I have nothing to worry about at all.

It is bizarre but also all those who did something wrong thought that they would be immune to the law of karma only to find out that they reborn with tons of problem one life later.  

Ah, a borked version of Pascal's wager. Is that all you have? Fine, provide evidence of a re-incarnated anything. You cannot.

(March 19, 2018 at 8:54 am)Little Rik Wrote: The idiots    then have even the audacity to deny the karma and say that is all about bad luck.
I never finish to wonder how some people are so thick.  

You are the one claiming all manner of superstitious woo. Nobody else falls for it.

(March 19, 2018 at 8:54 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 18, 2018 at 4:15 pm)JackRussell Wrote: LR is a Dunning Kruger poster boy; he is right about everything and never makes a mistake. He knows more than everybody here and must be listened to.

NDE wash, rinse, repeat.

LR is never wrong and has nothing to learn from anybody, we are all idiots and our thoughts are worthless.

But this thread should be in pseudoscience and skepticism

coz'  I ain't convinced.

Most of you guys already made the big mistake to hide from your consciousness the big reality that God is alive and well.

And still hiding because...actually why is your god in permanent hiding? What is he afraid of?

(March 19, 2018 at 8:54 am)Little Rik Wrote: Not happy with that now you try to hide even every single truth that contradict your dogma.

Atheism by definition has no dogma.

(March 19, 2018 at 8:54 am)Little Rik Wrote: The free will doesn't always help you however.

Free will? The very thing you want to surrender to your god?

(March 19, 2018 at 8:54 am)Little Rik Wrote: That is something that you will learn the hard way.  

No. You are simply scared of dying. Tough luck. You are going to die. So am I. So is everything. That is the way of things. Making up a whole grab bag of woo before you check out changes nothing.

---

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote: <snip for brevity>

You like the whole NDE thing. What does NDE actually mean? "Near Death Experience". As in not at all dead by any measure. All you have are anecdotes from people in an oxygen starved brain state.

Now, I have been over the course of a long life in various surgeries but on one occasion I woke mid surgery. That was trippy as hell. I had what would be termed by woo plodders an OOBE. I recognised it for what it was even under anesthesia. Afterwards, in recovery, I joked about it with the nurse. There is nothing special about it.

And since you are so hell bent on the reincarnation and karma rubbish, why is it that all of the NDE anecdotes are pretty much Judeo-christian in nature where there is no reincarnation or karma at all? If you are going to cite NDEs as evidence then it proves you are wrong.

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 20, 2018 at 3:00 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Given that you previously said that a person's prior beliefs condition what they see in an NDE, you're simply contradicting yourself here.

Not at all yog.
You are confusing    all this with the NDE welcome.
Read again what I did write.  

I did read what you wrote, both here and before.  But you apparently didn't read what I wrote.  I've asked you several times how one knows that the 'welcome' portion of an NDE is over.  You've yet to answer that question, until you do, the rest is irrelevant.

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: God can lift up to the very top your awareness as he wishes taking into due account of course your free will as already been demonstrated in Cathleen NDE.

Quote:You didn't demonstrate anything with the Cathleen NDE other than that you can make unwarranted assumptions.  That Cathleen perceived the same as what you believe to be true is not evidence that she was perceiving the reality accurately.  You have no way of knowing what her free will wanted nor what God wants based solely on the NDE itself.  You're smuggling in those assumptions from elsewhere and that invalidates any conclusion you've made.

Idiot.
If you read properly her NDE it clearly stated that she come back into her body BECAUSE she still had feelings for her parents.
That is the fee will in action.

Moron.  The question at issue is how you know that Cathleen's account of a reality where there is reincarnation is more reliable than NDE accounts which contradict the idea of reincarnation.  Your first response was that people see things in their NDE that reflect their prior beliefs, rather than reality.  I pointed out that the same could be said about Cathleen, thus rendering her reincarnation NDE nothing more than a reflection of her prior belief rather than truth.  So you then claimed that free will made the difference but have been unable to explain how.  When asked about it, you give me crap like this which has nothing to do with the original question.  Pull your head out of your ass and answer the question.  I'll repeat it below in case you've forgotten.

(March 15, 2018 at 7:26 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(March 15, 2018 at 11:40 am)Little Rik Wrote: 1) Once you see God during your NDE you see that particular God that you believed during your life so for a Christian will be Jesus for a Buddhist Buddha, for an Hindu Shiva, Krishna or any of those hundreds Gods worship in their lives.
God is one of course but He will take a form that will be more familiar with the person who experience Him according to his-her previous culture.

Ignoring for the moment that this is a rationalization about NDEs rather than actual evidence from NDEs, this doesn't actually help you.  First, you're now asserting that the perceptions experienced in an NDE do not accurately reflect the underlying reality.   This undermine's your claim that the presence of a God in an NDE establishes reincarnation and karma as you've severed the link between the character of the God presented and his actual attributes or character.  Regardless, in point #5 below you're attempting to assert the exact opposite, that the perceptions in an NDE are an accurate reflection of the underlying reality and not illusory.  You can't have it both ways.  You have to choose one or the other.  The good news is that you're fucked either way you go.  If you assert as you are here that the perceptions in an NDE do not in fact represent reality reliably, then we cannot reliably infer anything based upon the content of NDEs, as according to you, it's just a reflection of prior beliefs.  On the other hand, if the perceptions in an NDE accurately reflect reality, as you try to argue in point #5, then you're back to having mutually contradictory accounts of reality.  If those perceptions are accurate, then reality is inconsistent and absurd, and we again cannot rely upon the testimony of NDEs because it is not clear from the content of NDEs what version of reality is in fact the true one.  So, the argument above doesn't help you.  As a matter of principle, though, you need to decide which poison pill you want to swallow and stick with it.

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: High intellect to God means nothing so even a simple person can understand God 100%.
If however a person put his free will in between himself and God then obviously God can not be perceived in full.

Quote:"Can" and "do" are worlds apart.  I could give a rat's ass what you believe God "can" do as opposed to what he has actually done.  You cannot show that God was revealing an accurate picture of the afterlife to Cathleen, and that is what you need to do to claim that her account of reincarnation and karma is correct.  You have no way of determining the "state" of someone's free will in relation to the truth if you cannot first demonstrate the truth without relation to their will.  You don't know the truth independent  of an NDE, so you can't claim that this or that exercise of will hurt or helped determine the accuracy of their NDE.  These are rather obvious epistemological problems, yet you appear to be completely unaware that they even are problems.

Of course if you do not believe that God exist then for you is all BS.
No need to go any further then.
That is quite bizarre because on one hand you say that you never said that NDEs are BS but on the other hand you dismiss NDEs at every step and God reality at the same time.
It look like you are in the middle of the great ocean not knowing where to go.
Make up your mind yog.  

And it looks like you're spouting more irrelevant twaddle.  I'll repeat the problem that you are failing to address:
You cannot show that God was revealing an accurate picture of the afterlife to Cathleen, and that is what you need to do to claim that her account of reincarnation and karma is correct.
Until you can show that, all your pointless crap about what I am or am not doing doesn't matter.  

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: That doesn't mean that whatever is perceived is wrong.
Why God would waste his time in letting people perceive something wrong.

Quote:In George Ritchie's NDE, he met Jesus and Jesus showed him that the afterlife consists of four kingdoms to which the person will go.  There is no reincarnation in his NDE and so if what you claim about reincarnation is right, then what Ritchie perceived is wrong or inaccurate.  The definition of accurate is "correct in all details," so any difference from the actual reality in any detail is therefore inaccurate.  You don't get around this point by claiming unsupported things about God's motives.  You claimed that what people perceive in the afterlife is a reflection of what they believed before death.  If they perceive Jesus God and no reincarnation, and there is reincarnation, then their perception is NOT correct in all details.  Ritchie says in the video that Jesus said that "if you've seen me [then] you've seen what follows," so unless no reincarnation follows death, then Ritchie's perceptions were wrong.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with his NDE.
It is you that didn't get it.
Go through again yog and you will get it if of course you stop being a total nonsense.
Reincarnation is there.
In fact God shown as Jesus explain clearly what the afterlife is all about.
Kingdoms are dimensions which reflect each being awareness so according each individual awareness they will end up in a particular dimension.
This is about reincarnation yog.
In his NDE God doesn't say that these kingdom are final yet you deduce that they are.
How stupid can you be yog?  

I didn't rely solely on a YouTube  video for my information about his NDE.  In his accounts of his NDE, he says that he saw 'heaven' and 'hell', and speaking about the latter, he spoke of the beings in that realm living that way forever.  So, no, I didn't assume anything.  Ritchie was a life long Christian and knew the definition of heaven and hell.  

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: NDEs are about learning in order to progress spiritually so God give to each particular individual what is useful for him-her.
Nothing more nothing less.
Whether the person who experience the NDE perceive God 1 or 100% that is not the issue.
The issue is that what God give to the person is 100% of what the person need.
All the rest is meaningless.

Quote:No, the issue is whether the content of an NDE can be relied upon as an accurate representation of the underlying reality.  According to you, George Ritchie's NDE was not accurate.  You don't get around this point by muttering a bunch of mumbo jumbo about what you think God wants or what you think God is doing for the person in an NDE as those are all just guesses on your part, they are not evidence of anything.  You have no evidence that what you are saying is true about NDEs, and I can equally assert something otherwise with just as much justification.  Whether or not NDE content is accurate is the central issue in your being able to demonstrate the existence of karma and reincarnation with them.  All this idle speculation about God and the purpose of NDEs is meaningless and quite beside the point.

You keep on deducing things that never existed.
Your imagination is way way out of control yog.
Look after your health yog.  

And yet more irrelevant twaddle. You're simply running away from the claims you've made about NDEs being evidence for reincarnation and karma. 

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: One thing for sure is that I never said that my awareness in consciousness is huge so avoid to say things that I never said.
All I said is that I practice the best system to progress in spiritual awareness which is the real yoga.
That's all.
As far as to know the degree in awareness that only the supreme mastermind can tell.
If however you feel more peace and happiness within then you know that you are on the correct path.

Quote:First, it doesn't follow that because one experiences peace and happiness within that it necessarily follows that they are on the correct path.  Accomplished Buddhists feel peace and happiness within, yet according to you, their path does not lead to spiritual extinction as they believe.  So obviously peace and happiness mean squat.  Nazis in world war II felt a sense of peace and happiness and feeling of meaning as a consequence of being members of a fascist state, that doesn't in any way indicate that they were on the "correct" path.  To know something is to have justified true belief about the thing.  Nothing about a feeling of peace and happiness justifies your belief that you are on the correct path, so you do not in fact "know" any such thing.  Some studies show that meditation by itself  leads to peace and happiness, regardless of the path that the person is on.  That you believe there is a link between the two is just more evidence of your foolishness.

It really depend on temporary peace which can be achieved with a glass of wine or a drug or any other artificial way or permanent peace of mind which can only be achieved with hard spiritual work.
Obviously my case is the latter but I guess you never thought about that yog, did you?

You still haven't shown any link between peace and happiness and the conclusion that you are correct about how the system works.  Nor have you shown that permanent peace of mind is possible, nor that you can achieve it through yoga.  These are all articles of faith.  You haven't shown diddly squat, so this is more irrelevant twaddle.

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote:

Quote:And you still did not answer  the question of how a person knows that the welcome is over in an NDE.  Given that you were the one who brought up this welcome nonsense, it's odd that you continue avoiding answering the question.  I could care less what you think your feelings of peace and happiness mean as you're a deluded twat.  You have no actual evidence for your belief about what it means.

Wrong once again yog.
Your problem (actually one of your many problem ) relate to the fact that you fail to understand what I and other people did write.
What I did write is that each individual has his own free will more or less pronounced so obviously his her relation with God may vary.
A welcome is only the first part of any NDE and means very very little in term of acquiring knowledge from God.
If a particular person is very strong in believing that Jesus is the real God then God will show in Jesus image during all the NDE.
If on the other hand a person did not have any previous belief than God may show as pure light during all the NDE.
All this is pure and simple futility.
It is the knowledge that God give the only important thing.
All the rest mean very little.

More irrelevant twaddle.  I'll repeat the question again as you haven't answered it:

And you still did not answer  the question of how a person knows that the welcome is over in an NDE.

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: 1) Who said that..........clairvoyance is possible in the absence of blood and life?
2) There is enough evidence to say that an NDE happen when the consciousness leave a dead body but there is zero evidence to say that OBE may happen when the consciousness is still in the alive body it is therefore up to you that propose this topic to demonstrate that clairvoyance can create an OBE.  

Quote:You're trying to reverse the burden of proof again.  You made the claim that OBEs demonstrate that consciousness leaves the body.  It's up to you to demonstrate that alternative explanations like clairvoyance are impossible.  I don't have to prove that it is possible.  As long as it's consistent with the evidence, you have to rule it out.  You haven't done so, and so your claim that the evidence necessarily shows that consciousness leaves the body has not been demonstrated.  Until you demonstrate that clairvoyance is not possible, then your claim that there is enough evidence to show that consciousness leaves the body is false, because every scrap of evidence for that is fully compatible with clairvoyance.

You are the one who brought up the clairvoyance topic not me so is up to you to demonstrate your point not me.

Actually, the fact of the matter is that you were the first to raise the topic, HERE, when you claimed that, "Many NDEs already proved that consciousness separate from the dead body by being able to see their dead body below or to see things or places where these people never been before. Witness confirmed the authenticity of the vision so obviously at the time of physical death the consciousness separate from the body."  The only point I need to prove is that there is an equally likely explanation which accounts for the same evidence, namely clairvoyance.  My evidence for clairvoyance is the same as yours for consciousness leaving the body, namely OBEs.  Unless you can show that clairvoyance can't account for the content of OBEs in NDEs, then your claim that, "NDEs already proved that consciousness separate from the dead body," is thereby refuted.  But continue to make moronic and irrelevant demands about what I do or do not need to do if it makes you feel better.

Consciousness must leave the body for reincarnation to occur.

If you cannot show that consciousness necessarily leaves the body, then you have one less piece of evidence for reincarnation.

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: FOOL.

Even your country is sending satellites to other planets to better study those planets.
Yoga does the same thing although doesn't send satellites to God.
Yoga is all about reducing the distance that separate you from God in order to fully understand God beside the fact that the other main reason is to merge into Him and become one with it so the accuracy about God must be obtained by reducing the distance that separate us from Him.  

Quote:None of this is evidence of reincarnation or karma.  That you have beliefs about what you are accomplishing through you practice of yoga is a fact of which I have no doubt.  However your beliefs are not themselves evidence of anything other than that you hold such beliefs. They are not evidence that yoga brings you closer to God.  Again, as with the question of will discussed above, you have to be in possession of the truth first before you can show that this or that practice correlates with discovering the truth.  You keep omitting the step of first determining truth independent of yoga before you can determine that yoga is associated with truth.  You have not done any such thing.  This entire paragraph about "what yoga does" is just a digression which means nothing.

Practice give you the evidence that yoga bring you close to God.
We are made of consciousness-energy.
God also.
How do I know?
By practicing yoga more and more awareness come to the surface and more is within waiting to come to the surface.
The total amount of consciousness is God so when you are able to bring to the surface all the consciousness within you are God.
Of course this awareness will come in you in some next reincarnation considering that at the moment as I already said you put a strong negative free will between yourself and God.

More irrelevant twaddle.  Practice warps your mind and makes you believe things that are not true.  See?  I can make unsupported assertions, too.

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: Sure, you.........don't think anyone believes the universe pop up as per magic.........but at the same time atheists keep on believing that the universe doesn't need a God because entropy can keep the universe alive beside the fact that atheists have no idea how the universe got there in the first place.

You are full of garbage yog yet you keep on argue with people that at least use logic in their thinking.  

Quote:Your irrational opinion is noted.  I also note that despite the bold claims in your last post  about what math and so on show about god, you haven't bothered to present any of that evidence.  Put up or shut up.  This thread is not about what atheists believe, it's all about you and your claims that you have evidence of god, karma, and reincarnation.   Pony up or admit defeat.

Me irrational.

Atheists say that there is no need for God because entropy can do the job instead.
Are you kidding me?
And what about all the rosary of atheists dogmas?

More irrelevant twaddle.  You're getting lost in side alleys and forgetting what you came here for.  You claimed you had evidence for reincarnation and karma, yet you haven't been able to produce squat except conflicting NDE reports which only show that NDE evidence is unreliable and by your own admission reflects prior beliefs first, and underlying truth second.

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: Getting lost once again yog?  
Being aware about 1% of God nature doesn't mean that your NDE is only 1% accurate.

Quote:No, but the evidence from NDEs as well as your prior claims do mean that.

Garbage yog.
An NDE can be accurate without the need to understand 100% of God nature.
NDE are there to give spiritual guidance not to elevate you to God level.

Can be accurate.  My question to you has always been how do we know when they are accurate and when they are not?  By your own account, NDEs in which Jesus God or Buddha God contradict Yoga God, then those Gods are substituting for the true God.  A substitute is by definition inaccurate because it is not "correct in all details."   If Jesus God reveals a permanent hellish abode like in George Ritchie's NDE, when reincarnation is the true reality, then according to you, his NDE is inaccurate.  The question then becomes how do we differentiate between inaccurate NDEs and accurate ones, which is a puizzle you've yet to solve.  Failing that, you have no reliable evidence for reincarnation and karma.

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote:  It is a punishment according karma laws but is not if that imply to change body in order to evolve.
Clearly you should have understood that my reply imply the topic of karma.

Quote:I really could give a shit about what you believe to be the laws of karma, so far you haven't shown that there even are any.

As the consciousness is evidence that energy is there and the other way around also reincarnation is evidence that karma is there.

That doesn't even come close to following logically.  What, did you learn that one in your classes of Sarkarian dogma?

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: A teacher fail those students that haven't learn the lesson.
This has absolutely nothing to do with being a sadist.
The karma law does the same so God has nothing to do with sadism.   

Quote:More analogies you can't substantiate and assertions you can't justify.  You say God is like a teacher, I say that God is like a BDSM Dominatrix.  Your asserting that God is like this or that is not evidence that God is like this or that, it is only your opinion that he is. Opinions are like assholes, everone's got one.  And your opinion that "karma law" is like that is equally summarily dismissed.
Do you have any actual evidence for your opinions or is this going to become a game where you assert things without evidence and I dismiss them for lack of evidence?  Ten days ago you claimed that NDEs "obviously" entail reincarnation, and what has followed is your complete inability to provide evidence for reincarnation that unambiguously entails reincarnation.  You're not making any headway at all and seem content to tread water, addressing irrelevant side issues and digression to the omission of any actual evidence.

Cathleen NDE is one of the many NDE that clearly prove reincarnation.
Read it again (when you are awake of course).  

Repeating your initial claim does nothing to resolve the objections made to it.  It only shows that you have a dim mind and a short attention span.  The question for pages has been how you reconcile NDE accounts that report things that are mutually contradictory, such as accounts of reincarnation and accounts of no reincarnation.   Pointing back to one or the other simply makes it clear that you don't understand what is being debated, and perhaps are incapable of doing so.

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: The God of yoga is also yogini God.
Unfortunately you have put your strong free will in between you and God which make impossible for you to perceive Him.

Quote:And you know what my free will has done by what method?  That I disagree with you about the nature of reality is not evidence that my free will has handicapped my perception in any way.  Your claim is entirely dependent upon your being correct in your beliefs about what reality actually is, and we have no indication that this is the case.  Quite the contrary, despite my patient tutelage and interrogation, you haven't managed to provide any clear evidence of your beliefs about reincarnation and karma.  As cornerstones of your belief, that doesn't bode well for the rest of your beliefs.

Cathleen NDE clearly talk about reincarnation.
Read it again.

That you think this is even relevant at this point only shows that you're a moron.  This has been asked and answered multiple times.

(March 21, 2018 at 5:35 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 20, 2018 at 10:48 am)Little Rik Wrote: Without order and justice the system would collapse.
In every country there is the police and a justice system.
Why?
You are so gullible that you never ask yourself why.
If a system of justice wouldn't be there there would be total chaos.
The universe follow the same system that is why it last and last and will last possibly for ever.

Quote:Even if I accepted your analogy at face value, that doesn't entail that a God for whom the universe is a mental projection is the only way to achieve order.  There are primitive Indians in the Amazon who have no system of law and justice, yet they seem to manage fine without descending into chaos.  This is accomplished largely through habit and convention.  If the universe has such habits and convention in the form of natural laws, then the imposition of a universal law giver is not needed.  

Regardless, the universe isn't necessarily like a country which needs laws and such to maintain order, and the chaos which results from the lack of them is a social and moral chaos, not a literal one.  You have no evidence that we do not exist in a universe in which "moral chaos" is the reality; you only want the universe to demonstrate a moral order.  Your desire for justice does not demonstrate that universal justice exists.  So your analogy is more a wish on your part than anything.  Your beliefs about what would result in a universe without justice are unfounded.  Chaos, in the sense of randomness, is not a natural consequence of a universe without moral order.
Again, you're falling off the path in your attempt to prove karma and reincarnation.

Sure, I can not bring you any evidence but you can find tons of evidence when you see people starving or being killed or born with disabilities.
There are millions and millions of them.
All around the planet but you are so so stupid to think that all this is due to bad luck.  

I honestly have no idea what your point is here.  Does any of that prove that there is an underlying moral order to the universe?  No, it doesn't.

As to the rest, it's just you ranting pointlessly.

My scrolling finger hurts.