(April 2, 2018 at 6:31 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(April 2, 2018 at 6:28 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Any lack of sincerity is manufactured.  I sincerely believe that you're a fucking lunatic..

That's only because I've told you guys I am though.

Why? I sincerely hope you are joking. Out of everyone here, I have defended you the most. Please do not prove me wrong. I simply see you as young and angry and trying to fit in. I am 51 and I cuss like a sailor and every religion ticks me off. BUT, I have no desire to get physical or violent with anyone, even if they make me want to pull my hair out.

I don't think there is a single definition of lunatic, that would not apply to me. Madness has not subsided yet.

And perhaps, I am going down a more dangerous road then ever before.

---

For example, right now, I don't believe in the definition of religion as used by today. Like "official doctrine" of the religion, this religion teaches this and that etc, because I believe it's a paradox and there is too many divisions to know that, and even if there wasn't, there would be no way to asses when it comes to the founder, what he truly taught by these means.

You're a twelver.  I'm not even gonna lie...I'd shoot you by default on a crowded street on that basis alone.  You need to distance yourself from those people, Mystic.  This ends in misery.

-it's not islam.........

I have distanced myself as far as I can.

But I need a community. And I need to find the truth about the religions in the world.

If the same thing has happened to them as to my religion. Sabotagged by deceivers.

Quote:Why am I here?

Because you wouldn't fit in the safe and all the drawers were full?

Boru

They haven't been sabotaged by anything...they -are- the decievers.

Would it help if you knew..that if I were to ever be religious, I would be a muslim...but I could never be a twelver?

They're a fucking terrorist factory, man.......

That's an appeal to consequence. The truth doesn't depend on that.

(April 2, 2018 at 6:36 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(April 2, 2018 at 6:33 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I DONT think he is a lunatic. 

I am though. I don't relate to people anymore, in the world I am in, the paradigms, it makes no sense to anyone, but myself, and what people take for granted, I don't understand how they can act according to those paradigms.  I don't find anyone on the creed I am on. 

So that means something is up, right?

DON'T hand me that bullshit that you cannot relate.

You JUST liked a poem posted here not written by you. THAT MEANS you CAN relate.

MK, "creed" is nothing more than a antiquated word for gang member. The only label that matters is HUMAN. If you were not human, you would not have liked that poem, the fact that you did says you CAN relate to others.

What you are having a problem in in reality is breaking away from the old social norms you were sold. WE PROMISE, nothing bad will happen to you if you give up on old claims. And even we do not expect, EVEN IF YOU DO THAT, to become a "atheist creed", because there is no such thing.

This may be a website catering to atheist, but not even we agree with all things all the time. Just like you and Atlass don't agree all the time.

I bitch and moan about EVERY religion, not just yours. but even if you suddenly said right now, "I don't need a God or religion" even in that case, I would NOT expect you to agree with me 100% of the time.

"Creed" is an antiquated word. If you are going to tell an atheist in another thread to hold tough and stick with it and be yourself, then you don't need a "Creed" because I can tell you in my history of reading Losty, she is her own person, even with other atheists.

I shouldn't be presenting religion. I haven't proven it to myself let alone to you guys.

(April 2, 2018 at 6:16 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Islam seems true at the moment, but I haven't confirmed by reason every part of the Quran. And don't know if it's consistent yet.
So I'm not sure in that respect.

So this paragraph seems reasonable. If this was the main idea of a thread, it might do very well on an atheist forum.

Why? "Islam seems true..." this comes off as an honest statement. Then you might expound here. What makes it seem true? What gives you doubts? Being suspended in doubt between two possibilities "God exists" or "God doesn't exist" is a position that any atheist worth his or her salt has placed themselves in... at least as an intellectual exercise. Some of us (the agnostics) found no good reason to believe "God exists" and so do not believe in God. Others have found it reasonable to conclude "God doesn't exist" and so they adopted that conclusion.

If someone wants to accept the conclusion "God exists," I'm fine with that. I respect it. But they need to show the ability to put themselves in a state where they can examine both possibilities. I've seen you make posts that demonstrate that you have this capacity. I like you, MK. I think you are honestly seeking the truth, and that's what it takes to earn my respect for one's intellectual position-- nothing more, nothing less.

It is a problem when there are those short-lived theists who come to the forums claiming "they know the truth" and "we do not know." Upon close inspection of these individuals, it becomes clear that they are incapable of suspending themselves in doubt between the two options. Ergo, I don't take them as capable of having an honest intellectual discussion about such things.

You are different. You ARE capable. And I like that. And I think you have a place here. I'd hate to see you go. The problem you have is that you sometimes post esoteric stuff that is of no interest to nonbelievers, agnostics, believers or really anybody except hardcore spiritual seekers. There has to be some kind of new age Sufi forums out there for you to post that stuff and have some really interesting conversations with people. To expect a good conversation here shows that you are inconsiderate; you completely ignore the atheistic position which is stated again and again on these boards. If you want to post an esoteric thing, at least take some time to explain why someone who adopts the atheistic position ought to take it seriously.

Or better yet-- don't. Only discuss certain things here, and save the esoteric things for new age/Sufi type forums (which I'm sure exist somewhere).

Regardless, I think you and I are having a nice discussion about the foundation of knowledge and values in the other thread, so I hope to see you over there.