(April 8, 2018 at 8:39 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote:

(April 8, 2018 at 8:29 pm)possibletarian Wrote: *Bold Mine*

They have already had ample opportunity, and failed.
You keep making the claim that intelligent, smart (sounding) researchers have presented evidence, thing is no one seriously thinks their evidence qualifies as evidence, smart intelligent people should have no problem knowing what kind of evidence they need to present.

I get by 'the right conclusion' you mean 'agree with what i think'. If you have any evidence then present it simple as.

I never said these researchers had actual evidence.  All I said was that they claim they have actual evidence and, since they are smart researchers who have had a lot of training and education, then we should not dismiss their claims of evidence through the types of shortcuts skeptics use to dismiss their claims.  Rather, we should do full research in order to arrive at the right conclusion as to whether these researchers have real evidence or not.

Well isn't it simple? Let them present their evidence to the scientific community. That is the one (and only) way to see if their claims of having evidence are real or not.

(April 8, 2018 at 8:39 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote:

(April 8, 2018 at 8:29 pm)possibletarian Wrote: *Bold Mine*

They have already had ample opportunity, and failed.
You keep making the claim that intelligent, smart (sounding) researchers have presented evidence, thing is no one seriously thinks their evidence qualifies as evidence, smart intelligent people should have no problem knowing what kind of evidence they need to present.

I get by 'the right conclusion' you mean 'agree with what i think'. If you have any evidence then present it simple as.

I never said these researchers had actual evidence.  All I said was that they claim they have actual evidence and, since they are smart researchers who have had a lot of training and education, then we should not dismiss their claims of evidence through the types of shortcuts skeptics use to dismiss their claims.  Rather, we should do full research in order to arrive at the right conclusion as to whether these researchers have real evidence or not.

There is a scientific process for a reason.  It defines the reality in which we live.

If there is actually "any" evidence of the paranormal, that evidence should be able to stand up to the scientific method.  If not, it's pure hooey.

(April 8, 2018 at 9:39 pm)haig Wrote:

(April 8, 2018 at 8:39 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: I never said these researchers had actual evidence.  All I said was that they claim they have actual evidence and, since they are smart researchers who have had a lot of training and education, then we should not dismiss their claims of evidence through the types of shortcuts skeptics use to dismiss their claims.  Rather, we should do full research in order to arrive at the right conclusion as to whether these researchers have real evidence or not.

Please provide details. Have you vetted what they say about their education? Have you investigated their claims?

Skeptics dismiss their claims without evidence because we already know paranormal claims are crapola. We don't need to investigate, the evidence will always be falsified. When investigations are done, the evidence has always been found to be falsified. Why would any other paranormal event be different?

The paranormal researchers would say their claimed evidence has not been demonstrated as false and that the skeptics are just being close minded when saying that their evidence is false.

(April 8, 2018 at 9:50 pm)possibletarian Wrote:

(April 8, 2018 at 8:39 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: I never said these researchers had actual evidence.  All I said was that they claim they have actual evidence and, since they are smart researchers who have had a lot of training and education, then we should not dismiss their claims of evidence through the types of shortcuts skeptics use to dismiss their claims.  Rather, we should do full research in order to arrive at the right conclusion as to whether these researchers have real evidence or not.

Well isn't it simple?  Let them present their evidence to the scientific community.  That is the one (and only) way to see if their claims of having evidence are real or not.

Again, the paranormal researchers would say that the mainstream scientific community is close minded.   So, I do not trust them.  

(April 8, 2018 at 9:52 pm)Lutrinae Wrote:

(April 8, 2018 at 8:39 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: I never said these researchers had actual evidence.  All I said was that they claim they have actual evidence and, since they are smart researchers who have had a lot of training and education, then we should not dismiss their claims of evidence through the types of shortcuts skeptics use to dismiss their claims.  Rather, we should do full research in order to arrive at the right conclusion as to whether these researchers have real evidence or not.

There is a scientific process for a reason.  It defines the reality in which we live.

If there is actually "any" evidence of the paranormal, that evidence should be able to stand up to the scientific method.  If not, it's pure hooey.

There is also more than the scientific method.  There is reasoning and logic.  The paranormal researchers not only claim that they have used the scientific method in coming up with their claimed evidence, but that the skeptics are using flawed/close minded reasoning and logic.

(April 8, 2018 at 10:01 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote:

(April 8, 2018 at 9:39 pm)haig Wrote: Please provide details. Have you vetted what they say about their education? Have you investigated their claims?

Skeptics dismiss their claims without evidence because we already know paranormal claims are crapola. We don't need to investigate, the evidence will always be falsified. When investigations are done, the evidence has always been found to be falsified. Why would any other paranormal event be different?

The paranormal researchers would say their claimed evidence has not been demonstrated as false and that the skeptics are just being close minded when saying that their evidence is false.

(April 8, 2018 at 9:50 pm)possibletarian Wrote: Well isn't it simple?  Let them present their evidence to the scientific community.  That is the one (and only) way to see if their claims of having evidence are real or not.

Again, the paranormal researchers would say that the mainstream scientific community is close minded.   So, I do not trust them.  

(April 8, 2018 at 9:52 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: There is a scientific process for a reason.  It defines the reality in which we live.

If there is actually "any" evidence of the paranormal, that evidence should be able to stand up to the scientific method.  If not, it's pure hooey.

There is also more than the scientific method.  There is reasoning and logic.  The paranormal researchers not only claim that they have used the scientific method in coming up with their claimed evidence, but that the skeptics are using flawed/close minded reasoning and logic.

Reasoning and logic are the scientific method.  Show me where reasoning and logic fit into the paranormal paradigm.  Yes, they claim.  Claiming is not the same as scientific backing.  

OMG, you're dense.  I can claim any freaking thing, such as unicorns squatting in my basement.  A freaking claim, without scientific backing, is merely a claim.  These paranormal claims; that's just it, they're nothing more than claims.

Being open minded has nothing to do with it, because anyone with an open mind about absolutely anything will accept anything based on a mere claim rather than a scientific backing.

(April 8, 2018 at 10:05 pm)Lutrinae Wrote:

(April 8, 2018 at 10:01 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: The paranormal researchers would say their claimed evidence has not been demonstrated as false and that the skeptics are just being close minded when saying that their evidence is false.


Again, the paranormal researchers would say that the mainstream scientific community is close minded.   So, I do not trust them.  


There is also more than the scientific method.  There is reasoning and logic.  The paranormal researchers not only claim that they have used the scientific method in coming up with their claimed evidence, but that the skeptics are using flawed/close minded reasoning and logic.

Reasoning and logic are the scientific method.  Show me where reasoning and logic fit into the paranormal paradigm.  Yes, they claim.  Claiming is not the same as scientific backing.  

OMG, you're dense.  I can claim and freaking thing, such as unicorns squatting in my basement.  A freaking claim, without scientific backing, is merely a claim.  These paranormal claims; that's just it, they're nothing more than claims.

Being open minded has nothing to do with it, because anyone with an open mind about absolutely anything will accept anything based on a mere claim rather than a scientific backing.

At this point, I don't know what more to say.  The paranormal researchers would claim that they do, in fact, have scientific backing while you are claiming they don't.  This is where I have to remain undecided since I just don't know one way or the other and it doesn't matter what anyone says to me.  The only way for me to know for sure is for me to do full research like I have mentioned many times here.  But, like I said earlier, I have no interest in doing this research.  I just simply came here to inform the skeptics that perhaps they are just being close minded and need to do full research before jumping to conclusions.

(April 8, 2018 at 10:14 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote:

(April 8, 2018 at 10:05 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: Reasoning and logic are the scientific method.  Show me where reasoning and logic fit into the paranormal paradigm.  Yes, they claim.  Claiming is not the same as scientific backing.  

OMG, you're dense.  I can claim and freaking thing, such as unicorns squatting in my basement.  A freaking claim, without scientific backing, is merely a claim.  These paranormal claims; that's just it, they're nothing more than claims.

Being open minded has nothing to do with it, because anyone with an open mind about absolutely anything will accept anything based on a mere claim rather than a scientific backing.

At this point, I don't know what more to say.  The paranormal researchers would claim that they do, in fact, have scientific backing while you are claiming they don't.  This is where I have to remain undecided since I just don't know one way or the other and it doesn't matter what anyone says to me.  The only way for me to know for sure is for me to do full research like I have mentioned many times here.  But, like I said earlier, I have no interest in doing this research.  I just simply came here to inform the skeptics that perhaps they are just being close minded and need to do full research before jumping to conclusions.

You don't have to remain undecided.

You can come to your own conclusions based on your own experience.  Have you witnessed any actual paranormal activities whereby the only explanation is that it was a paranormal activity?  The problem is that most people who claim paranormal experience denounce the fact that there is natural explanation that discounts their experience.  Their personal experience trumps reality, for whatever stupid reason.

(April 8, 2018 at 10:18 pm)Lutrinae Wrote:

(April 8, 2018 at 10:14 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: At this point, I don't know what more to say.  The paranormal researchers would claim that they do, in fact, have scientific backing while you are claiming they don't.  This is where I have to remain undecided since I just don't know one way or the other and it doesn't matter what anyone says to me.  The only way for me to know for sure is for me to do full research like I have mentioned many times here.  But, like I said earlier, I have no interest in doing this research.  I just simply came here to inform the skeptics that perhaps they are just being close minded and need to do full research before jumping to conclusions.

You don't have to remain undecided.

You can come to your own conclusions based on your own experience.  Have you witnessed any actual paranormal activities whereby the only explanation is that it was a paranormal activity?  The problem is that most people who claim paranormal experience denounce the fact that there is natural explanation that discounts their experience.  Their personal experience trumps reality, for whatever stupid reason.

Coming to a conclusion this way is irrational.  It's the wrong way of doing so and won't arrive me at the real truth.  The only way to arrive at the real truth is through full research.  Again, what you are pointing out here is one of those shortcuts.  I don't go by these shortcuts and I think that using these shortcuts is the wrong method.

(April 8, 2018 at 10:22 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote:

(April 8, 2018 at 10:18 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: You don't have to remain undecided.

You can come to your own conclusions based on your own experience.  Have you witnessed any actual paranormal activities whereby the only explanation is that it was a paranormal activity?  The problem is that most people who claim paranormal experience denounce the fact that there is natural explanation that discounts their experience.  Their personal experience trumps reality, for whatever stupid reason.

Coming to a conclusion this way is irrational.  It's the wrong way of doing so and won't arrive me at the real truth.  The only way to arrive at the real truth is through full research.  Again, what you are pointing out here is one of those shortcuts.  I don't go by these shortcuts and I think that using these shortcuts is the wrong method.

Those who support paranormal activity prefer those shortcuts.

(April 8, 2018 at 10:25 pm)Lutrinae Wrote:

(April 8, 2018 at 10:22 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: Coming to a conclusion this way is irrational.  It's the wrong way of doing so and won't arrive me at the real truth.  The only way to arrive at the real truth is through full research.  Again, what you are pointing out here is one of those shortcuts.  I don't go by these shortcuts and I think that using these shortcuts is the wrong method.

Those who support paranormal activity prefer those shortcuts.

Then they are also using the wrong method.  They should also do full research.

Clearly.