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RE: Oh no not another free will thread.
April 23, 2018 at 12:10 am
(This post was last modified: April 23, 2018 at 12:10 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Neither, but could bob choose the banana?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Oh no not another free will thread.
April 23, 2018 at 12:20 am
(April 23, 2018 at 12:10 am)Lutrinae Wrote: At this point, I'm exhausted. Thank you for the debate.
Hey, welcome to my life lol. On AF at least.
That's why I don't engage in super long discussions anymore like I used to. Either someone gets it (even if they disagree), or they don't get it, or they do get it but pretend not to. After a good circle or 2, I just drop it.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Oh no not another free will thread.
April 23, 2018 at 12:24 am
(April 23, 2018 at 12:10 am)Khemikal Wrote: Neither, but could bob choose the banana?
Who's bob and what's a banana?
I mean, it does seem to be the go-to argument.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
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RE: Oh no not another free will thread.
April 23, 2018 at 12:29 am
(This post was last modified: April 23, 2018 at 12:29 am by The Grand Nudger.)
He;s that guy, that Henrys on about..who's about to pick an orange, which is the thing that's not a banana..conversely, bananas are not-orange things, and bob won't be choosing one.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Oh no not another free will thread.
April 23, 2018 at 12:30 am
(April 23, 2018 at 12:29 am)Khemikal Wrote: He;s that guy, that Henrys on about..who's about to pick an orange, which is the thing that's not a banana..conversely, bananas are not-orange things, and bob won't be choosing one.
Makes perfect sense to me. He should have chosen the apple.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
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RE: Oh no not another free will thread.
April 23, 2018 at 12:31 am
(This post was last modified: April 23, 2018 at 12:31 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Couldn't, unfortunately..there weren't any apples in bobs future. Only bananas and oranges. Bob's future sounds like a fucked up place, to me. Especially if bob hates oranges.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Oh no not another free will thread.
April 23, 2018 at 12:32 am
Fortunately, despite the future having no apples. At the present time when he wanted an apple, there was an apple tree right there.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
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RE: Oh no not another free will thread.
April 23, 2018 at 12:32 am
(April 22, 2018 at 11:10 pm)Hammy Wrote: (April 22, 2018 at 10:49 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Then you are getting rid of “will” all together; free or otherwise. Likely also getting rid of conscienceness and reason. In which case, you didn’t come to this conclusion through reason.
I don't know how you come to that non-sequtur. Consciousness and will still exists whether it's free or not.
I think you are correct, and that I may have become a bit overzealous in including consciousness. However, in either view I think that if you eliminate free will, that you also eliminate thought and reason. And it’s difficult to argue for a thing, that cuts at the very basis of debate itself.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
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RE: Oh no not another free will thread.
April 23, 2018 at 12:32 am
(April 23, 2018 at 12:08 am)henryp Wrote: (April 22, 2018 at 11:18 pm)Grandizer Wrote: This would still completely invalidate the theist notion of free will, regardless of the nature of time and regardless of whether parallel worlds are a thing. God knows what you will inevitably do in this or that specific timeline because the choices are hardcoded into the system. If choices were made freely in the libertarian sense of the term, then there's no logical way God could 100% know what you end up doing in the future.
Here's my time travel hypothetical.
Bob video tapes Larry choosing between a banana and an orange. Larry chooses an orange of his own free will. Bob sends the video tape back in time to himself. Bob now knows Larry will choose an orange.
Does Bob's knowledge of Larry choosing an orange make him choose the orange? Or does Larry choosing an orange of his own free will cause Bob to know Larry will choose the orange?
No, see my previous response. Full knowledge of a future choice C does not necessarily determine the choice, but such knowledge does indicate it isn't a choice made freely in the libertarian sense.
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RE: Oh no not another free will thread.
April 23, 2018 at 12:35 am
Man states with knowledge "The world is ending on this certain date".
Does the world end on that date?
How many times has that knowledge come to pass?
So much for knowledge.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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