Hi, welcome

I grew up sitting in the first row seats of every church my parents pastored. I was a firm believer. I believed with all my passion and all my thoughts.

When I was in my early 20s I had to think outside the box for several debate topics in school. I had to pretend to think differently for the case of my assignments. This opened up my mind a little bit. I had already read the Bible twice from start to finish before, but I started if again. This time, some things didn’t click. Why was this god so awful to women? Why did he love killing so much? What kind of fucked up laws were these? What’s the point of killing himself as sacrifice to himself? None of it made sense until I started wondering if maybe the people who wrote this were basing it all on their own ideas. I mean... we’re blindly accepting as fact stories that people wrote decades after things happened, and then they copied them by hand, and again, and again, and then they were translated again and again. And we just take it like, “Yes, I do.” Why? This same reaction to anything else would be considered insanity. Accepting the Bible as truth just because it says it’s the truth is in fact insanity. If we had grown up where our friend Atlas grew up, we wouldn’t be a Christian. Christians are just lucky to have been raised in the one true religion? Sorry, but no. The more I read the more I realized I had wasted years on a fairy tale and there was no way I could continue that way.

(April 23, 2018 at 10:56 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Main reason I left the faith is simple. I just couldn't handle lying to myself any longer. Christianity is clearly based on so much nonsense, whether we're talking Bible only or Catholicism or whatever. To even think otherwise is ludicrous. That's all there is to it. There's nothing you or anyone can do to convince me to come back to the faith, short of a clear vivid remarkable vision from the Christian god himself, validated by virtually every person I know and trust to be fairly rational.

Need to fix my words here is strong. What I should have said that you won't convince me that your Christian god exists, unless some vivid explicit miracle happened that was clearly from that god and everyone I know and trust witnessed the same thing and couldn't arrive at any other more plausible conclusion. This does not mean that I would necessarily go back to the Christian faith, only that I would believe. It's one thing to believe a god exists; it's another to want to acknowledge it as my god.

Right. Maybe it could even have a sensible relationship with us, rather than just choose to worship it or not. That's not how new people normally greet me.

Quote:Ya'll can help me with more understanding of what I believe and why. I am sure you have your reasons for not believing, I am just trying to genuinely understand.

Welcome matey...

I can help you with what you believe and why. Indictrination.
None of us are born religious. It's something that's drummed into you from a young age.

As a skeptic (as most here are), we ask why is it that every theist's one true God just happens to be a geopolitical decision? Zeus is my man!

It doesn't sound very divine, does it. That's the reality Without the mechanism of indoctrination, there would be no religion.
We see it for what it is. A tool. And a very good one. Don't take our word for it, just ask the world biggest landlord.

cheers.

(April 23, 2018 at 9:07 pm)G Alan Wrote:

(April 23, 2018 at 7:20 pm)Khemikal Wrote: You're gonna find a bunch of former believers here.  Welcome aboard.

Thanks.  I just want to understand the reasons behind former vs. now.  Is it something that we as Christians need to be aware of and are we a part of the problem.

bold mine. 

We have quite a few Christians on this forum and for as much as they are "aware" of our atheism, they, like you, seem to think that atheism is a "problem". A lack of belief in a god or gods isn't a problem. Sadly, too many Christians view logic and reason as problems when in fact, believing in a stifling, narcissistic, misogynistic, genocidal, mythical sky daddy that you'll never physically see, and threatens you with eternal damnation if you don't love him, is the real problem.  

Honestly, there is absolutely nothing appealing about any of that shit. 

I used to believe until I woke up. None of the pastors or priests I talked to seem to genuinely want to help me understand why I had all these questions about an entity, whom I was assured loved me with "all his heart", never showed up to protect me or keep me from harm when family members were abusive. Over many of my "Christian believing days", god let me down every single time he should have protected me from abusive situations.

(April 24, 2018 at 3:10 am)ignoramus Wrote:

Quote:Ya'll can help me with more understanding of what I believe and why.  I am sure you have your reasons for not believing, I am just trying to genuinely understand.

Welcome matey...

I can help you with what you believe and why. Indictrination.
None of us are born religious. It's something that's drummed into you from a young age.

As a skeptic (as most here are), we ask why is it that every theist's one true God just happens to be a geopolitical decision? Zeus is my man!

It doesn't sound very divine, does it. That's the reality Without the mechanism of indoctrination, there would be no religion.
We see it for what it is. A tool. And a very good one. Don't take our word for it, just ask the world biggest landlord.

cheers.

Yup, indoctrination. Religious belief correlates extremely highly with geography. That either indicates that there's several gods all with limited fields of influence; or else people are just believing that they are told as children, which is entirely natural. Our brains are blank slates when we're young and our instincts are to trust adults. We have no tools with which to decide whether what they are saying makes sense or not yet, which is why indoctrination always starts so early. Leave it until children are much older and suddenly the belief rates would drop right out. Leave them until they're adults and you'll have virtually zero.

Rob, that makes perfect sense to everyone who isn't infected with the mind virus ...

(April 24, 2018 at 4:38 am)ignoramus Wrote: Rob, that makes perfect sense to everyone who isn't infected with the mind virus ...

Yeah I'm sure it's going to sound blunt and outrageous from the other side, but there's no way round it. I don't say it to insult people, it's just calling it as I see it, and hopefully getting people to think things through.

I think that the religious beliefs become ingrained and people are emotionally dependent on them. Then they construct all kinds of rationalisations as to why it's reasonable to have such beliefs. They then manage to convince themselves that it's the other way round, that they came to those beliefs through some sort of unbiased evaluation. But it almost always just so happens to be the beliefs they were taught as children.

I know what it's like, I've experienced it myself, just not in a religious setting. Things that happened in my childhood have shaped my beliefs about myself, and it has taken me all of my adult life to be able to challenge them. They still haunt me even now, and I find myself saying things I objectively know aren't true and can't be true, but I emotionally believe them anyway. It's the same with religion, it favours feelings over logic, and the feelings will always win because the religious belief is drilled down so far into the brain that it's become part of it.

(April 23, 2018 at 9:07 pm)G Alan Wrote: Thanks.  I just want to understand the reasons behind former vs. now.  Is it something that we as Christians need to be aware of and are we a part of the problem.

The safe assumption, even without their input..would be yes.   Yes, christians are part of the problem when it comes to why other christians leave christianity.