If there is a designer he's inept, incompetent and/or corrupt.

Either way, not worth worshipping or even acknowledging.

(May 6, 2018 at 5:17 am)Quick Wrote:

(May 6, 2018 at 4:39 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Uh, straw man. I don't think he claimed that we were exclusively rational, only that biases could be counter-acted.

I don't see anything definitive here that says people can rid themselves of biases. What I see here is that the only thing that really happens is that their bias changes from one PoV to another. We are creatures with a limited grasp of reality. We can only take in so much information because we have not evolved to the point where we can take in all information from our surroundings. And ironically enough, the reason I know people have biases is because I have rid myself of a lot of them. This doesn't mean that I am not otherwise predisposed to bias, however, only that the biases I hold have changed. I might consider changing my mind if you could provide evidence for ridding oneself of bias via brain scan.

Quoting this to show it was my post that got caught in the spam filter and I am not actually crazy. <- joke

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(May 6, 2018 at 2:48 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: If there is a designer he's inept, incompetent and/or corrupt.

Either way, not worth worshipping or even acknowledging.

What makes you say that? I see the claim. How do you back it up?

(May 6, 2018 at 2:53 pm).Quick Wrote:

(May 6, 2018 at 2:48 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: If there is a designer he's inept, incompetent and/or corrupt.

Either way, not worth worshipping or even acknowledging.

What makes you say that? I see the claim. How do you back it up?

See, the problem with answering this questions, as many of us have, over and over, is that many theists simply disregard every reason/example we give of the incompetent designer as a result of "The Fall," completely exonerating (in their minds) all the piss poor design.

(May 6, 2018 at 9:49 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 6, 2018 at 9:47 am)robvalue Wrote: If we can produce a natural explanation, does god then suddenly vanish?

No, but there is no way to provide a natural explanation to highly sophisticated code in DNA.

Sure there is!
There is always a way to provide a natural explanation for a natural event.
Here's the simplest, given that your god-did-it one doesn't apply: Aliens-did-it!



As for your fine tuning thing.... heck, extra-universe-aliens-did-it!
I call these aliens, Euadi. You read it as Eh-oo-ah-dee
Every year in the Euadi world, many high school students have to perform an exam by which they produce a new Universe. They've been at it for millennia... their millennia, which don't have any relation to our year measurements. They might even have multidimensional time, for all we know.
Some Euadi kids are better than others... ours probably got a C+ for creativity, a D- for life support, and a B for that Black hole thing.

How can you distinguish aliens from your god, based on these arguments from ignorance that you present us?

(May 6, 2018 at 3:17 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:

(May 6, 2018 at 2:53 pm).Quick Wrote: What makes you say that? I see the claim. How do you back it up?

See, the problem with answering this questions, as many of us have, over and over, is that many theists simply disregard every reason/example we give of the incompetent designer as a result of "The Fall," completely exonerating (in their minds) all the piss poor design.

This, precisely.

An all knowing god would have designed the human body better. We would be far more resistant to disease, wouldn't be able to choke to death on our food (a rather obvious design flaw involving the throat), and there would be no superfluous organs and little junk DNA.

And if you're going to blame it on the "fall". Remember that the Abrahamic god supposedly knew it was going to happen and LET it happen.

Therefore I reiterate my statement of it not being wirth acknowledging.

(May 6, 2018 at 3:17 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:

(May 6, 2018 at 2:53 pm).Quick Wrote: What makes you say that? I see the claim. How do you back it up?

See, the problem with answering this questions, as many of us have, over and over, is that many theists simply disregard every reason/example we give of the incompetent designer as a result of "The Fall," completely exonerating (in their minds) all the piss poor design.

I am not a theist.

(May 6, 2018 at 4:03 pm)Quick Wrote:

(May 6, 2018 at 3:17 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: See, the problem with answering this questions, as many of us have, over and over, is that many theists simply disregard every reason/example we give of the incompetent designer as a result of "The Fall," completely exonerating (in their minds) all the piss poor design.

I am not a theist.

Um sorry, but while "atheist" refers to "off on "God/god/deity" claims, I make no distinction with labels like "pantheist".

Exactly what does "pantheist" mean? I've heard arguments from others over the years whom call themselves that that the universe itself is a living thing. Not buying that anymore than I would a popular god belief. 

Old mythology or new age woo, it is all the same to me. Humans basically not seeing that we are not important to the cosmos or universe. Humans simply don't like the fact we are finite.

(May 6, 2018 at 4:03 pm)Quick Wrote:

(May 6, 2018 at 3:17 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: See, the problem with answering this questions, as many of us have, over and over, is that many theists simply disregard every reason/example we give of the incompetent designer as a result of "The Fall," completely exonerating (in their minds) all the piss poor design.

I am not a theist.

Against my better judgement...

The left recurrent laryngeal nerve. It travels all the way down the neck, into the chest cavity, around the aorta and back to the larynx. I humans, not so much of a design flaw. In giraffes (yes, same stupid flaw there)...

The shared opening of the trachea and esophagus, resulting in thousands of choking deaths and aspiration pneumonia cases every year.

The proximity of our reproductive system and waste elimination systems (often jokingly referred to a putting the recreation facility in the middle of a waste treatment facility) which leads to thousands of unnecessary infections, some life threatening.

Susceptibility to all manner of diseases, many of them deadly.

Allergies to the very foods we eat and (natural impurities in) the very air we breath

The inability of our eyes to perceive a number of threats, including UV, even though the lowly honey bee can.

And that's just within the human species, off the top of my head.


In the wider world...

The reliance on the the brutality of the food chain to provide sustenance to nearly all animals.

The two most common waste gasses of all animals (CO2 and methane) being greenhouse gasses.

Radiation from the the one thing making life on this planet possible, also being the cause of various cancers.

Billions of tons of rock and ice that can easily be perturbed out of their stable orbits to become weapons of mass destruction on a scale humans can't even begin to conceive of creating.

Again, off the top of my head, and I'm certain there are many, many more that could be provided by others.


If there is an ultimate designer of life, the universe and everything else, it is an incompetent boob.

(May 6, 2018 at 4:03 pm)Quick Wrote:

(May 6, 2018 at 3:17 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: See, the problem with answering this questions, as many of us have, over and over, is that many theists simply disregard every reason/example we give of the incompetent designer as a result of "The Fall," completely exonerating (in their minds) all the piss poor design.

I am not a theist.

"Aliens"?

(May 6, 2018 at 4:28 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(May 6, 2018 at 4:03 pm)Quick Wrote: I am not a theist.

Um sorry, but while "atheist" refers to "off on "God/god/deity" claims, I make no distinction with labels like "pantheist".

Exactly what does "pantheist" mean? I've heard arguments from others over the years whom call themselves that that the universe itself is a living thing. Not buying that anymore than I would a popular god belief. 

Old mythology or new age woo, it is all the same to me. Humans basically not seeing that we are not important to the cosmos or universe. Humans simply don't like the fact we are finite.

That's not a problem for me that you fail to understand the distinction of belief that separates me from yourself.

(May 6, 2018 at 4:50 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:

(May 6, 2018 at 4:03 pm)Quick Wrote: I am not a theist.

Against my better judgement...

The left recurrent laryngeal nerve. It travels all the way down the neck, into the chest cavity, around the aorta and back to the larynx. I humans, not so much of a design flaw. In giraffes (yes, same stupid flaw there)...

The shared opening of the trachea and esophagus, resulting in thousands of choking deaths and aspiration pneumonia cases every year.

The proximity of our reproductive system and waste elimination systems (often jokingly referred to a putting the recreation facility in the middle of a waste treatment facility) which leads to thousands of unnecessary infections, some life threatening.

Susceptibility to all manner of diseases, many of them deadly.

Allergies to the very foods we eat and (natural impurities in) the very air we breath

The inability of our eyes to perceive a number of threats, including UV, even though the lowly honey bee can.

And that's just within the human species, off the top of my head.


In the wider world...

The reliance on the the brutality of the food chain to provide sustenance to nearly all animals.

The two most common waste gasses of all animals (CO2 and methane) being greenhouse gasses.

Radiation from the the one thing making life on this planet possible, also being the cause of various cancers.

Billions of tons of rock and ice that can easily  be perturbed out of their stable orbits to become weapons of mass destruction on a scale humans can't even begin to conceive of creating.

Again, off the top of my head, and I'm certain there are many, many more that could be provided by others.


If there is an ultimate designer of life, the universe and everything else, it is an incompetent boob.

All this says is that we don't live in a utopia. IDK why it would be necessary for us to live in a utopia as a necessity that there is a higher being.

(May 6, 2018 at 5:20 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(May 6, 2018 at 4:03 pm)Quick Wrote: I am not a theist.

"Aliens"?

I have no idea what you are saying. If you want to use words instead of a meme, I can have a discussion with you.