(May 11, 2018 at 3:28 am)CDF47 Wrote: Yeah, I blame them.  They debate like a menstrual 14 year old whiny girl.

So a spammer and a misogynist.

(May 11, 2018 at 3:28 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 3:25 am)Kit Wrote: Boo-hoo, get over it.  

After the 50th time you've repeated the same untruth, do you blame them?

Yeah, I blame them.  They debate like a menstrual 14 year old whiny girl.

Sounds more like you're describing yourself at this point.

(May 11, 2018 at 3:29 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 3:28 am)CDF47 Wrote: Yeah, I blame them.  They debate like a menstrual 14 year old whiny girl.

So a spammer and a misogynist.

Oh, go cry about it to your whiny little atheist friends.

---

(May 11, 2018 at 3:29 am)Kit Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 3:28 am)CDF47 Wrote: Yeah, I blame them.  They debate like a menstrual 14 year old whiny girl.

Sounds more like you're describing yourself at this point.

I know you are but what am I....LOL.  I told you this is how you all debate.

Okay, I wish I could spend the rest of the night just entertaining the troll in you, but I must head to bed.

*tips my hat to you*

Goodnight, may you find something better to do in the future that does not involve wasting your time alienating others.

(May 11, 2018 at 3:33 am)Kit Wrote: Okay, I wish I could spend the rest of the night just entertaining the troll in you, but I must head to bed.

*tips my hat to you*

Goodnight, may you find something better to do in the future that does not involve wasting your time alienating others.

Goodnight.  Not trying to alienate anyone.

---

Probability of making a protein:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQoQgTqj3pU

(May 10, 2018 at 11:32 pm)CDF47 Wrote: Answer these questions:

If any of them require an "I don't know", will you assume your ID and claim victory?
Remember the argument from ignorance that I mentioned earlier?... That would be exactly what you'd be doing... so better not, unless you want to be thought a fool.

(May 10, 2018 at 11:32 pm)CDF47 Wrote: 1. Where do the information bearing properties of DNA come from?  

That's a big question.
First, I've told you it's not information... but let's assume, for the sake of argument, that it is.
DNA is a self-replicating molecule. At it's current state, it is quite stable as the replication is done with amazing accuracy.
How it came to be like this is unknown. People weren't around back then to measure and fossilization of molecular structures is something that, if it happened, isn't easy to find.

That said, some people are investigating the matter.
Like these guys> https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja312155v
""
Two weakly interacting low-molecular-weight monomers (cyanuric acid and a modified triaminopyrimidine) are shown to form extremely long supramolecular polymer assemblies that retain water solubility. The complete absence of intermediate assemblies means that the observed equilibrium is between free monomers and supramolecular assemblies. These observations are in excellent agreement with literature values for the free energy of nucleic acid base interactions as well as the calculated free energy penalty for the exposure of hydrophobic structures in water. The results of our study have implications for the design of new self-assembling structures and hydrogel-forming molecules and may provide insights into the origin of the first RNA-like polymers.
""
Maybe you'll find this popular science article on the matter a bit more enlightening> https://www.wired.com/2013/02/proto-rna/

It's not a definite answer... and I don't think it's possible to answer for certain how it happened so long ago... but one can show that it is possible to do it without any intervention that requires more than basic chemistry.

(May 10, 2018 at 11:32 pm)CDF47 Wrote: 2. Please describe the origins of genetic information.  

Again, no one knows and it might be impossible to find the exact mechanism by which things happened on Earth.
But attempts and guesses have been put forward> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocell
Couple these with self-assembling and self-replicating proto-DNA molecules, and there you have it. The origins of genes. The origin of life.

(May 10, 2018 at 11:32 pm)CDF47 Wrote: 3. DNA is located in a protein molecule. It takes DNA to build a protein. Which came first, the DNA or the protein?  

You're looking at it from today's perspective. It's similar to the old question of which came first, the chicken or the egg?
The truth is, far before chickens arrived on the scene, dinosaurs laid eggs. Even before dinos roamed the Earth, eggs were laid by fish.

So clearly, something was around before something else. Proteins are sets of amino-acids and it is known that amino-acids can self-assemble under the right conditions, so it's is completely plausible that proteins were also self-assembled prior to any DNA structure.

(May 10, 2018 at 11:32 pm)CDF47 Wrote: 4. Please provide a step-by-step natural explanation of the process of how DNA is copied and transferred to an assembly line where amino acids are linked together precisely as instructed, then formed into a functional protein, then transported to an exact location in a protein machine prior to machine operation. Explain how all the transport systems work. Explain the sequences of operation, the communication protocol, the operations of the machines, the assembly instructions, energy harvesting,.... Please explain how this all happened naturally.

All that happens naturally in every cell of your body. In every cell of every animal's body. In every cell of any bacteria.
It is such a natural and deterministic procedure that it's been studied to death.

(May 11, 2018 at 4:52 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(May 10, 2018 at 11:32 pm)CDF47 Wrote: Answer these questions:

If any of them require an "I don't know", will you assume your ID and claim victory?
Remember the argument from ignorance that I mentioned earlier?... That would be exactly what you'd be doing... so better not, unless you want to be thought a fool.

(May 10, 2018 at 11:32 pm)CDF47 Wrote: 1. Where do the information bearing properties of DNA come from?  

That's a big question.
First, I've told you it's not information... but let's assume, for the sake of argument, that it is.
DNA is a self-replicating molecule. At it's current state, it is quite stable as the replication is done with amazing accuracy.
How it came to be like this is unknown. People weren't around back then to measure and fossilization of molecular structures is something that, if it happened, isn't easy to find.

That said, some people are investigating the matter.
Like these guys> https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja312155v
""
Two weakly interacting low-molecular-weight monomers (cyanuric acid and a modified triaminopyrimidine) are shown to form extremely long supramolecular polymer assemblies that retain water solubility. The complete absence of intermediate assemblies means that the observed equilibrium is between free monomers and supramolecular assemblies. These observations are in excellent agreement with literature values for the free energy of nucleic acid base interactions as well as the calculated free energy penalty for the exposure of hydrophobic structures in water. The results of our study have implications for the design of new self-assembling structures and hydrogel-forming molecules and may provide insights into the origin of the first RNA-like polymers.
""
Maybe you'll find this popular science article on the matter a bit more enlightening> https://www.wired.com/2013/02/proto-rna/

It's not a definite answer... and I don't think it's possible to answer for certain how it happened so long ago... but one can show that it is possible to do it without any intervention that requires more than basic chemistry.

(May 10, 2018 at 11:32 pm)CDF47 Wrote: 2. Please describe the origins of genetic information.  

Again, no one knows and it might be impossible to find the exact mechanism by which things happened on Earth.
But attempts and guesses have been put forward> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocell
Couple these with self-assembling and self-replicating proto-DNA molecules, and there you have it. The origins of genes. The origin of life.

(May 10, 2018 at 11:32 pm)CDF47 Wrote: 3. DNA is located in a protein molecule. It takes DNA to build a protein. Which came first, the DNA or the protein?  

You're looking at it from today's perspective. It's similar to the old question of which came first, the chicken or the egg?
The truth is, far before chickens arrived on the scene, dinosaurs laid eggs. Even before dinos roamed the Earth, eggs were laid by fish.

So clearly, something was around before something else. Proteins are sets of amino-acids and it is known that amino-acids can self-assemble under the right conditions, so it's is completely plausible that proteins were also self-assembled prior to any DNA structure.

(May 10, 2018 at 11:32 pm)CDF47 Wrote: 4. Please provide a step-by-step natural explanation of the process of how DNA is copied and transferred to an assembly line where amino acids are linked together precisely as instructed, then formed into a functional protein, then transported to an exact location in a protein machine prior to machine operation. Explain how all the transport systems work. Explain the sequences of operation, the communication protocol, the operations of the machines, the assembly instructions, energy harvesting,.... Please explain how this all happened naturally.

All that happens naturally in every cell of your body. In every cell of every animal's body. In every cell of any bacteria.
It is such a natural and deterministic procedure that it's been studied to death.

It is not that simple and is actually virtually impossible to make one protein molecule from amino acids.  I recommend the video below for the probability arguments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQoQgTqj3pU

(May 11, 2018 at 5:03 am)CDF47 Wrote: It is not that simple and is actually virtually impossible to make one protein molecule from amino acids.  I recommend the video below for the probability arguments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQoQgTqj3pU

What your tiny brain can't comprehend is that it's not about probabilities.
It's about chemistry. Self assembly happens and is inevitable given the right conditions.
Show that those conditions have never been present on Earth. If you can't, then that's how it happened. No Intelligence required!
(I hope you see the irony in this sort of arguing, but maybe... just maybe... that's the sort of argument that you accept)

(May 11, 2018 at 5:13 am)pocaracas Wrote: What your tiny brain can't comprehend is that it's not about probabilities.
It's about chemistry. Self assembly happens and is inevitable given the right conditions.

Of course if CDF47 had read that paper I posted by Eric Chaisson he would have understood that. But he has no intention of listening to what we say. All he wants to do is spam.

(May 11, 2018 at 5:13 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 5:03 am)CDF47 Wrote: It is not that simple and is actually virtually impossible to make one protein molecule from amino acids.  I recommend the video below for the probability arguments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQoQgTqj3pU

What your tiny brain can't comprehend is that it's not about probabilities.
It's about chemistry. Self assembly happens and is inevitable given the right conditions.
Show that those conditions have never been present on Earth. If you can't, then that's how it happened. No Intelligence required!
(I hope you see the irony in this sort of arguing, but maybe... just maybe... that's the sort of argument that you accept)

You obviously didn't watch the video I posted.  It addresses that exact problem.

---

(May 11, 2018 at 5:16 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 5:13 am)pocaracas Wrote: What your tiny brain can't comprehend is that it's not about probabilities.
It's about chemistry. Self assembly happens and is inevitable given the right conditions.

Of course if CDF47 had read that paper I posted by Eric Chaisson he would have understood that. But he has no intention of listening to what we say. All he wants to do is spam.

There are only so many posts and links I can read and watch in a 114 page thread that is only days old.