(May 16, 2018 at 9:17 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: Because the Scriptures say so.

But if a human designs something and they have free will, then your god could not have designed it.

God gave man the ability to design.  We are in God's image; hence, God can design so we can design.  God gets angry so we get angry,....

(May 16, 2018 at 9:27 am)CDF47 Wrote: No, you just hate God and do what you can to make Him sound horrible when He is not.  He is just, loving, merciful, and trustworthy.  He also has anger and wrath though and punishes sin.

We don't have to do anything to make god look bad, the bible does it for you.
And what makes you think we even have what you call 'free will' ?

(May 16, 2018 at 9:19 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 8:41 am)CDF47 Wrote: I agree, free will means they can love him or not and obey him or not.  It is their choice.

I agree, love cannot be compelled.

Knowing everything does not prevent free will.  He offers free will because He chooses not to force His people to love and obey Him or not.

If your god is omniscient then he, BY DEFINITION, knows in advance everything that you will do in every possible scenario. Furthermore he knows in advance what those scenarios will be. You have no choice but to do what god already knows what you will do.

Unless you change your claim and now your god is not omniscient. What's it gonna be?

It's both.  God is omniscient but still allows man to make free will choices.

(May 16, 2018 at 9:30 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 9:17 am)Mathilda Wrote: But if a human designs something and they have free will, then your god could not have designed it.

God gave man the ability to design.  We are in God's image; hence, God can design so we can design.  God gets angry so we get angry,....

Doesn't change the fact that if we design something then your god did not design it. And we're not acting as a tool by which your god designs something because we have free will. Therefore not everything in the world is designed by your god.

(May 16, 2018 at 9:24 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 9:19 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote: If your god is omniscient then he, BY DEFINITION, knows in advance everything that you will do in every possible scenario. Furthermore he knows in advance what those scenarios will be. You have no choice but to do what god already knows what you will do.

Unless you change your claim and now your god is not omniscient. What's it gonna be?

Not to mention that it was inevitable that Adam and Eve would eventually eat the apple given that they were immortal and had a limited range of actions available to them because they lived in a constrained environment.

It was not inevitable.  It was by choice they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

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(May 16, 2018 at 9:28 am)possibletarian Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 8:48 am)CDF47 Wrote: Because it is the inspired Word of God I believe.  I believe through faith and reason.  Science shows that the universe and living systems were designed and created.  From their I turn to theology and all the different religions.  Many of the pagan religions are the same with different characters,  similar to Osiris, Isis, and Horus.  Some religions have no creation story or a weird creation story.  It is the Bible that states in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth which I believe was the beginning of the Big Bang and the second heaven being the creation of our sky.

Yes you can make almost any religion fit the bill, but many religions do have creation stories, a few of them are very similar to those that  feature in the bible. The bible itself features three different stories, how Christians account for this has twisted and turned through the years.

But the problem is it's nonsense to believe in the detail, no reasonable person equates the creation story with the science of the universe without excruciating twisting and assumption. It is clear it is simply another myth.

So what particular passages make you through reason believe it is a good account of science ?
Even then what makes you thing the story of the fall, or any supernatural experience is real ?

I disagree.

I disagree.  Study apologetics and God and science and it is possible.

The creation account I believe fits the Day-Age Interpretation of Genesis based on Old Earth Creationism.  I believe science shows us the universe and living systems are designed and created by a super intelligence.  Based on looking at all the religions of the world I believe in the Christian God of the Bible.  OT and NT are the same Lord.  I believe the Lord can break the laws of physics at His will and create supernatural experiences because it is His creation.

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(May 16, 2018 at 9:29 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 9:17 am)Mathilda Wrote: But if a human designs something and they have free will, then your god could not have designed it.

Still waiting for a response.

I responded above.

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(May 16, 2018 at 9:30 am)possibletarian Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 9:27 am)CDF47 Wrote: No, you just hate God and do what you can to make Him sound horrible when He is not.  He is just, loving, merciful, and trustworthy.  He also has anger and wrath though and punishes sin.

We don't have to do anything to make god look bad, the bible does it for you.
And what makes you think we even have what you call 'free will' ?

The Bible, when taken into context, does not make Him look bad.

Because I have control over what I think, say, and do.  It is my free will choices I make.  That is what I believe.  We are not robots.

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(May 16, 2018 at 9:31 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 9:30 am)CDF47 Wrote: God gave man the ability to design.  We are in God's image; hence, God can design so we can design.  God gets angry so we get angry,....

Doesn't change the fact that if we design something then your god did not design it. And we're not acting as a tool by which your god designs something because we have free will. Therefore not everything in the world is designed by your god.

My God allows us to design things just like He allowed Adam to name the animals in the Garden of Eden.

(May 16, 2018 at 9:32 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 9:31 am)Mathilda Wrote: Doesn't change the fact that if we design something then your god did not design it. And we're not acting as a tool by which your god designs something because we have free will. Therefore not everything in the world is designed by your god.

My God allows us to design things just like He allowed Adam to name the animals in the Garden of Eden.

Yes, so Adam named the animals, not your god.

If I design a circuit diagram, then did I design it or did your god design it?

(May 16, 2018 at 9:41 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 9:32 am)CDF47 Wrote: My God allows us to design things just like He allowed Adam to name the animals in the Garden of Eden.

Yes, so Adam named the animals, not your god.

If I design a circuit diagram, then did I design it or did your god design it?

Exactly, that is because God willed that to happen.  He wanted to allow Adam to name the animals.

You designed it.

(May 16, 2018 at 9:43 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 9:41 am)Mathilda Wrote: Yes, so Adam named the animals, not your god.

If I design a circuit diagram, then did I design it or did your god design it?

Exactly, that is because God willed that to happen.  He wanted to allow Adam to name the animals.

You designed it.

So your god did not design the circuit diagram that I designed.

Around and around in circles we go.

(May 16, 2018 at 9:44 am)Kit Wrote: Around and around in circles we go.

I'm pinning him down when he's trying to equivocate to avoid contradicting himself.