(June 25, 2018 at 9:38 am)henryp Wrote:

(June 25, 2018 at 5:08 am)Joods Wrote: The more you open your mouth, the dumber you get. 

The Native Americans didn't immediately kill off the immigrants, and that worked out terribly for them. Isn't the lesson to be learned from that 'don't let immigrants into your country, or they'll kill you all'?

This is an extremely ignorant and vile thing to say. The same scapegoating allowed for black lynchings. The same scapegoating allowed for vilification of Chinese migrant railroad workers. The same vilification of the Irish, look up "Hell's Kitchen".  And no, I do not think either of my Hispanic neighbors are going to murder me. 

And on top of all the bigotry in our history listed above, we also wrongly vilified innocent Japanese Americans. We turned away a boat full of Jews during WW2 whom went back only to be murdered in concentration camps.

45 isn't "telling it like it is". He is simply preying on our species worst instincts.

(June 25, 2018 at 10:40 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 25, 2018 at 9:38 am)henryp Wrote: The Native Americans didn't immediately kill off the immigrants, and that worked out terribly for them. Isn't the lesson to be learned from that 'don't let immigrants into your country, or they'll kill you all'?

This is an extremely ignorant and vile thing to say. The same scapegoating allowed for black lynchings. The same scapegoating allowed for vilification of Chinese migrant railroad workers. The same vilification of the Irish, look up "Hell's Kitchen".  And no, I do not think either of my Hispanic neighbors are going to murder me. 

And on top of all the bigotry in our history listed above, we also wrongly vilified innocent Japanese Americans. We turned away a boat full of Jews during WW2 whom went back only to be murdered in concentration camps.

45 isn't "telling it like it is". He is simply preying on our species worst instincts.

I don't think that he or anyone is saying that illegal immigrants should be killed.  I think you are missing the point.  

But you have a fancy new house, do you think that you should have a say, in who enters into it?   If I just let myself in, and started making myself a sandwich is that OK?    You could come home tomorrow, and find me and 20 other people having a Bible study in your living room.  I think that if we want to change immigration policies (and relax them); that is a different conversation from tolerating illegal immigrants.

(June 25, 2018 at 4:11 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(June 25, 2018 at 1:46 am)Minimalist Wrote: I'm afraid that you and the orange fucktard are just going to have to hold your breath until you turn blue, Wyrd.  Right now, you strike me as a waste of oxygen anyway.

So, to be clear on your position, you are perfectly fine with allowing 100 million or even 7 billion asylum claimers into the country.  If you don't allow the entire world in then you are a meanie just like the orange fucktard is.  Think about all of those oppressed North Koreans and all of the people in the Middle East and in Africa and in Southeast Asia.  Roll out the red carpet or else you will be discriminating.  

That's fine if that's what you want.  Just say it plainly.  Every time I read the news I read about people who are oppressed all around the world.  So if people from the Western Hemisphere can claim asylum because they fear their neighbor's rug rats will shoot them then the really oppressed people like the victims of Boko Haram should be a shoo-in for asylum.  

I have to tell you, I'm starting to change my opinion after reading all of the posts and news articles.  I'm beginning to think that we should take affirmative action and go to those stressed out places where people are oppressed and bring them here.  Isn't that the right thing to do?  I'm sure that the Congress Critters will help make that a reality.

I feel like I should just go around pointing out logical fallacies wherever I see them.

Clearly reductio ad absurdum in play, here.

(June 25, 2018 at 10:47 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(June 25, 2018 at 10:40 am)Brian37 Wrote: This is an extremely ignorant and vile thing to say. The same scapegoating allowed for black lynchings. The same scapegoating allowed for vilification of Chinese migrant railroad workers. The same vilification of the Irish, look up "Hell's Kitchen".  And no, I do not think either of my Hispanic neighbors are going to murder me. 

And on top of all the bigotry in our history listed above, we also wrongly vilified innocent Japanese Americans. We turned away a boat full of Jews during WW2 whom went back only to be murdered in concentration camps.

45 isn't "telling it like it is". He is simply preying on our species worst instincts.

I don't think that he or anyone is saying that illegal immigrants should be killed.  I think you are missing the point.  

But you have a fancy new house, do you think that you should have a say, in who enters into it?   If I just let myself in, and started making myself a sandwich is that OK?    You could come home tomorrow, and find me and 20 other people having a Bible study in your living room.  I think that if we want to change immigration policies (and relax them); that is a different conversation from tolerating illegal immigrants.

A nation is not a personal house like the one you rent or own. It is a political construct.   In China if you are North Korean and try to escape to China and get found out, you get sent back to North Korea, if you are lucky you only get abusive hard labor in a prison camp, many get murdered by the state. So is that it, is that what you mean by "having a say"?


Do NOT hand me any bullshit, that if you were under the duress of famine, war or crime, and especially if you had kids, you would not want to flee it. 

But those HUMAN BEINGS you call "illegal" are being sent back to places where they WILL starve to death or get murdered by criminals. If ICE tried to fuck with my neighbors, WHOM HAVE KIDS as well, I'd be happy to commit non violent civil disobedience in protest.

Yes I will tolerate non violent individuals, with or without papers. I am not an inhumane dick. If we are to deport people the humane thing to do is to only send them to places where they won't have to flee again.

(June 25, 2018 at 11:14 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 25, 2018 at 10:47 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I don't think that he or anyone is saying that illegal immigrants should be killed.  I think you are missing the point.  

But you have a fancy new house, do you think that you should have a say, in who enters into it?   If I just let myself in, and started making myself a sandwich is that OK?    You could come home tomorrow, and find me and 20 other people having a Bible study in your living room.  I think that if we want to change immigration policies (and relax them); that is a different conversation from tolerating illegal immigrants.

A nation is not a personal house like the one you rent or own. It is a political construct.   In China if you are North Korean and try to escape to China and get found out, you get sent back to North Korea, if you are lucky you only get abusive hard labor in a prison camp, many get murdered by the state. So is that it, is that what you mean by "having a say"?


Do NOT hand me any bullshit, that if you were under the duress of famine, war or crime, and especially if you had kids, you would not want to flee it. 

edit:  assuming that Canada doesn't have immigration laws and restrictions of course.



But those HUMAN BEINGS you call "illegal" are being sent back to places where they WILL starve to death or get murdered by criminals. If ICE tried to fuck with my neighbors, WHOM HAVE KIDS as well, I'd be happy to commit non violent civil disobedience in protest.

Yes I will tolerate non violent individuals, with or without papers. I am not an inhumane dick. If we are to deport people the humane thing to do is to only send them to places where they won't have to flee again.

Hence bussing them up to Canada!   You agree with OP....

edit:  Assuming that Canada doesn't have immigration laws and restrictions.

(June 25, 2018 at 11:25 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(June 25, 2018 at 11:14 am)Brian37 Wrote: A nation is not a personal house like the one you rent or own. It is a political construct.   In China if you are North Korean and try to escape to China and get found out, you get sent back to North Korea, if you are lucky you only get abusive hard labor in a prison camp, many get murdered by the state. So is that it, is that what you mean by "having a say"?


Do NOT hand me any bullshit, that if you were under the duress of famine, war or crime, and especially if you had kids, you would not want to flee it. 

But those HUMAN BEINGS you call "illegal" are being sent back to places where they WILL starve to death or get murdered by criminals. If ICE tried to fuck with my neighbors, WHOM HAVE KIDS as well, I'd be happy to commit non violent civil disobedience in protest.

Yes I will tolerate non violent individuals, with or without papers. I am not an inhumane dick. If we are to deport people the humane thing to do is to only send them to places where they won't have to flee again.

Hence bussing them up to Canada!   You agree with OP....

But not in your back yard right? Thanks for proving my point. My neighbors are literally in my back yard and NO I do not want them deported.

My point is this sick lack of humanity being preyed upon by 45 and the GOP. We have more room for migrants and I would welcome them. It is bullshit to claim we don't have more room. 40 years of our pay gap explosion is what has been allowing the GOP to prey off of middle America's white anxiety and fear and hyper nationalism is what gets them votes.

Harley leaves, Toys R Us closes stores, Carrier jobs still left, and this new trade war 45 is pulling is hurting middle American farmers. But because his supporters cant or wont pull their heads out of their asses, they vote for that vile demagogue.

(June 25, 2018 at 11:34 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 25, 2018 at 11:25 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Hence bussing them up to Canada!   You agree with OP....

But not in your back yard right? Thanks for proving my point. My neighbors are literally in my back yard and NO I do not want them deported.

My point is this sick lack of humanity being preyed upon by 45 and the GOP. We have more room for migrants and I would welcome them. It is bullshit to claim we don't have more room. 40 years of our pay gap explosion is what has been allowing the GOP to prey off of middle America's white anxiety and fear and hyper nationalism is what gets them votes.

Harley leaves, Toys R Us closes stores, Carrier jobs still left, and this new trade war 45 is pulling is hurting middle American farmers. But because his supporters cant or wont pull their heads out of their asses, they vote for that vile demagogue.

Your not proving any point, because I didn't say that.
I don't have any problem with those who immigrate legally, or apply for asylum.  And I don't think that the President does either. 

I'm happy to discuss ideas at hand, but I'm not going to entertain your fake news racism and poisoning the well tactics. It doesn't help you case.

I do think that we need to talk about immigration reform and make some things easier.

---

You seem more interested in putting people down than talking about real tangible ideas.

(June 25, 2018 at 11:41 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(June 25, 2018 at 11:34 am)Brian37 Wrote: But not in your back yard right? Thanks for proving my point. My neighbors are literally in my back yard and NO I do not want them deported.

My point is this sick lack of humanity being preyed upon by 45 and the GOP. We have more room for migrants and I would welcome them. It is bullshit to claim we don't have more room. 40 years of our pay gap explosion is what has been allowing the GOP to prey off of middle America's white anxiety and fear and hyper nationalism is what gets them votes.

Harley leaves, Toys R Us closes stores, Carrier jobs still left, and this new trade war 45 is pulling is hurting middle American farmers. But because his supporters cant or wont pull their heads out of their asses, they vote for that vile demagogue.

Your not proving any point, because I didn't say that.
I don't have any problem with those who immigrate legally, or apply for asylum.  And I don't think that the President does either. 

I'm happy to discuss ideas at hand, but I'm not going to entertain your fake news racism and poisoning the well tactics. It doesn't help you case.

I do think that we need to talk about immigration reform and make somethings easier.

45's use of scapegoating and vilification is not "fake news" he's even attacked war heros and his own intel. 

Yea we can make it better without vilifying migrants which is what he is doing.

And do not hand me any bullshit THAT he doesn't pander to bigotry. Not after he called Mexicans rapists, vilified an entire religion and vilifies black NFL players.

(June 25, 2018 at 11:50 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 25, 2018 at 11:41 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Your not proving any point, because I didn't say that.
I don't have any problem with those who immigrate legally, or apply for asylum.  And I don't think that the President does either. 

I'm happy to discuss ideas at hand, but I'm not going to entertain your fake news racism and poisoning the well tactics. It doesn't help you case.

I do think that we need to talk about immigration reform and make somethings easier.

45's use of scapegoating and vilification is not "fake news" he's even attacked war heros and his own intel. 

Yea we can make it better without vilifying migrants which is what he is doing.

And do not hand me any bullshit THAT he doesn't pander to bigotry. Not after he called Mexicans rapists, vilified an entire religion and vilifies black NFL players.

When you want to have a rational conversation get back to me... Your'e not acting much different, then what you accuse Trump of.  Sure he's said some dumb things, but twisting them and lying doesn't help the cause.

Wow! so we're solving problems. Hmmm why not legalize drugs in US since Americans clearly have a need that could be controlled this way and it will take down all those drug cartels in Mexico and countries below like Columbia that are responsible for political unrest.

And while we at it why not switch from using oil to something else so that will also leave all those despotic regimes in Middle East and Africa penniless who are responsible for unrest there as well as migrant crisis and even 9/11 attacks.

In the meantime

Quote:Trump Administration Rejects Study Showing Positive Impact of Refugees

Trump administration officials, under pressure from the White House to provide a rationale for reducing the number of refugees allowed into the United States next year, rejected a study by the Department of Health and Human Services that found that refugees brought in $63 billion more in government revenues over the past decade than they cost.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/us/po...trump.html