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(September 12, 2011 at 4:37 pm)salty Wrote: This is what I'm trying to tell atheists:
1. Soon God will destroy all imperfection to make way for perfection.
2. God has created a way for finite creatures to repent and be in his presence.
3. Everyone will be given the chance to hear about God and choose.
4. Those who deny, defy, hate or purposely ignore God will get what they deserve based on how they have lived their lives on earth.
5. People have the free-will to live their lives however they see fit, with God or without God.
1. Prove it. How do you know? Why would it be "Soon" when the star that heats our planet has 2 Billion years worth of hydrogen to burn before the radiation evaporates the oceans. So why would it be soon, how do you know, and can you prove it?
2. I don't want to repent to your repulsive, jealous, greedy, racist, woman hating, baby killing, unreasonable God.
3. Hear what about God?
4. Not scared, not sorry.
5. Yes, and it's unfortunate that you use your free will to believe in this nonsense, fabricated by man. You're an apologetic, and a creationist, and therefore I can't take you seriously, as your silly beliefs tell me you're unreasonable and a drone of superstition with no mind of your own.
You never have anything insightful or profound, and it would be an embarrassment to the human race if we all perished, and all that was left to speak for the human species was something you posted. The aliens who found it would think. "Good fucking riddance!".
I'm sure this isn't the first time someone has expressed a religious view in the "Christianity" section of the forum, calm down. Perhaps you're used to beating people into submission with your attitude and your appearance of knowledge, but let's be straight, if intelligence has created this terrible attitude in you Alei, then it is surely a curse for you. I'd rather see you frolicking in a summer field, smiling and happy with atheism and all its ways, than breathing fire on people (including myself) with opposing views because you feel your wide education left nothing for you to learn.
Anyway, I wanted to tell you that I know:
1. You think I'm ignorant, unreasonable and crazy. 2. You hate my God. 3. You hate me by association with my God. 4. You feel nothing I have said is profound or useful or credible. 5. I cannot present you with enough "proof", because you have already decided that you need no more information in this subject.
So, I got it. Please take a step back and allow me to continue my ignorant speeches with the other people on the forum. These people may not respect my opinion or beliefs, but they don't feel it's necessary to bash me at every opportunity like you.
"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Hebrews 11:6
September 13, 2011 at 12:35 pm (This post was last modified: September 13, 2011 at 1:10 pm by salty.)
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(September 12, 2011 at 6:35 pm)ElDinero Wrote: With regard to the number 4 in that list: So are you saying, salty, that if I am a good person who shows kindness and loyalty and is trustworthy and so on, that it doesn't matter if I hate, defy or deny God? If so, seems to make belief in God a bit pointless either way, no? Maybe we could just skip past all the anti-scientific bullshit and get to treating other with kindness etc., what do you think?
(September 12, 2011 at 6:04 pm)salty Wrote: ElDinero. Give me a minute to get back to you. In the meantime. What specific archeological find disproves what events? How about we narrow it down to three big events, you pick them, give me the link, so I can read it over, and then I'll respond to that.
(September 12, 2011 at 6:08 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I'll be here whenever you get back. I'm always here.
Hmn, 3 events, so much bullshit to choose from, let's take it from the top.
Creation, The Flood, and Exodus.
Those three seem perfectly agreeable to me, although archaeology can't exactly explain creation or the flood either way. So rather than get fixed on the semantics, let's just say 'natural science' rather than archaeology. Do I really have to explain why the biblical account is bullshit?
Thank you for the link, I'll look it over. I'm going over all the responses, so it may take me a while.
Concerning #4. The Bible is clear that the wages for sin is death, so it's unlikely that people who have lived without God will "win" their way in Heaven. God offers salvation free of charge, free of work, on faith alone, the thief on the cross is the best example of a "deathbed" confessional, we know he wasn't on a bed of course, but you get what I'm saying. The thief was being punished for his crimes by Roman law and he believed that he was guilty and should be punished, but that Jesus was innocent and divine, he asked that Jesus remember him when he goes to his kingdom. Jesus confirmed that the thief would be present in the kingdom with him.
It is clear from this example that the Lord does not give salvation based on people's good works, good attitude, nice appearance, proper tithing, friendly ways, abstract ceremonies, sabbath day rules or their devotion to tradition and the Law, instead he gives salvation to anyone who repents, and believes that Jesus is divine and his kingdom will be established. For the people who believe right before they die, they will be pardoned, for the people who believe earlier in life it is important for them to follow the Lord's teachings so they can spread the good news, and begin the mission and life changning work God has for them.
The only reason Christians try to push people to believe now rather than later is because we don't know when people will die, they could be shot while going to the store, they could be decapitated by some object falling off a truck. The decision to believe is so simple that it's unbelievable! And because the decision is so simple and people have so much time to make it, they will have no excuse when they meet the Lord in person and change their minds. The door will be closed then, and yet God will judge everyone, giving everyone a trial. I think that is what makes strikes me as awesome, that he would evaluate people's lives, so that IF there is a way to spare someone, he can spare them.
What can God do if you curse him until your death, showing him that you will continue the tradition of sin in your eternal life because you refused to repent of evil while you lived as a human. You want God to take you into his righteous Kingdom so that you can become the new Lucifer and poison his people all over again? You who spit curses at his name, while others praised him and offered their lives to serving and loving him, by loving others. A just God would never admit someone who has no desire to repent into a place of repentance (Heaven). Simply, it will not be so.
Those who think they are worthy of Heaven will never experience Heaven, and those who think nothing of God, have nothing to worry about, because they will find out what happens when their death comes. Call all of this BS, I don't care, but you're not sure what happens are you? No one has told you have they? And the ones that do come back from death, don't they always talk about "a light?" or write books about Heaven (sometimes even Hell)?
(September 12, 2011 at 7:29 pm)ElDinero Wrote: Apologies, salty.
No problem ElDinero. I have only remained on this forum because I have people that are willing to put up with my opinion and approach me like an adult. If you see bull, then call it, that's fine. I just feel vexed when I have to put up with people that feel insulting my intelligence will somehow make their point matter.
I have no issues reasoning and agreeing to disagree on many points.
(September 13, 2011 at 7:33 am)Justtristo Wrote:
(September 12, 2011 at 1:50 pm)salty Wrote: Here. I found a website for you to explore in your spare time: http://www.godandscience.org. There's an "Answers for Atheists" section and at the bottom of the page "Common Atheist Myths." Let me know what you find.
That site argues for the earth being 4.6 billion years old and only a local not global flood being behind the story of Noah's Ark. Those alone is seen as heretical by large number of Christians who will maintain the universe is only 6000 years old and that around 4000 years old there was a massive global flood which wiped out all of humanity expect for 8 people.
Please note the tab and the topic, show me the link. There's a lot on there and I'm already a believer, so I'm not hanging out in the creation sections.
I too believe in a young earth, so I'd like to know what they're saying. I don't mind disagreeing with the site I provided, after I read the articles you give me. I think we all need a level of faith concerning what happened in the beginning of time since none of us were present.
(September 12, 2011 at 11:36 pm)aleialoura Wrote:
(September 12, 2011 at 1:50 pm)salty Wrote: Here. I found a website for you to explore in your spare time: http://www.godandscience.org. There's an "Answers for Atheists" section and at the bottom of the page "Common Atheist Myths." Let me know what you find.
I can disprove your bible bullshit all day long, but I just want to focus on this one little line from the book of Genesis.
"And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."
I study astronomy. It offends me greatly that someone capable of cognitive thought would believe this story. The struggle for our species to make discoveries about our universe is such an inspiration. We have come so far, despite Christianity. There was a time in the history of our little blue planet when people ("heretics") were put to death in various barbaric manners for having the audacity to suggest that the earth orbits the sun.
Since then, we have come so far. This is what we KNOW to be TRUE.
1. The moon is not a light, be it lesser or otherwise. Don't be stupid. The HUMAN who wrote this ludicrous bullshit had no fucking idea what the moon was! Now we do. It isn't a light.
2. The light that "rules the day" is a STAR. We call it a sun because it has planets in it's orbit. There are 100,000,000,000 SUNS in our galaxy (Milky Way) alone.
I say, fuck your bible for reducing the beauty, enormity, and complexity of the cosmos to a wave of the hand by some invisible person. I don't hate the writer of this bullshit, they couldn't have known that stars are more than just specks of light in the sky. I do have a really big problem with people turning their backs on the beautiful truth that smart people, with unquenchable desire for understanding worked so hard to discover. You have no understanding, salty. If you did, you wouldn't shit on the truth by denying it because it doesn't align with your faith.
I acknowledge that you don't feel the Bible gives creation enough complexity. It breaks creation down into a mere seven day period and makes it all look so simple. You're right Alei, God deserves more praise, more glory. He deserves to be exalted in every way, because what we find to be extremely complex, he does with a wave of his hand.
...it's so easy to make you angry...and for all your harsh words, what do they do to stop the Christian movement? Nothing. What do they do to stop me from talking about the goodness of God? Nothing. We can keep this battle up all day, but in the end I will be victorious on both accounts.
1. If I am wrong. I have lost nothing by following the teachings that give me patience to endure you and many like you. If I am wrong, you have lost nothing and lived a good life.
2. If I am right. I have lost nothing, I have trusted an eternal and loving God and will be welcomed into his kingdom because I love his justice and righteousness. If I am right, you have lost everything and will be judged according to your deeds. God knows the outcome.
You believe in chance correct? If there's a chance that I'm wrong, there's also a chance that I'm right, because your education can tell you nothing about what happens to the soul after the body dies. Look in your telescope all you want, read all your books, but you will not know what happens until it's your turn. Good luck.
"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Hebrews 11:6
You actually haven't given this much thought. You'd need to apply that wager to every faith in order to hedge your bets. You cannot do this, due to the many contradictory teachings of those faiths. Most are also mutually exclusive.
Do you pray to Allah 5 times a day? Might want to hedge your bets.
(list continues ad infinitum)
Also, as long as you're clinging to genesis as an accurate account of material creation (and especially a young earth), there is no chance that you're correct.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
So salty, would you say that a big part of your faith is out of fear of being on the wrong side?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
September 13, 2011 at 8:09 pm (This post was last modified: September 13, 2011 at 8:11 pm by Oldandeasilyconfused.)
Quote:If I am wrong. I have lost nothing by following the teachings that give me patience to endure you and many like you. If I am wrong, you have lost nothing and lived a good life.
2. If I am right. I have lost nothing,
Oh for goodness sake! Pascal's wager? Is that the best you can do?
Your assertion also implies an atheist cannot live a good (moral) life.That is an ignorant and impertinent thing to say.
Patience to endure us? What? Were you forced to come here? No you were not. Please try avoid patronising us, there's a good girl. Not for our sake you understand,indeedly doodly not. Because I think you're probably quite nice really,but in the post I quoted, you come across as a smug bitch.
(September 13, 2011 at 7:42 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:
(September 13, 2011 at 7:37 am)Justtristo Wrote:
(September 12, 2011 at 11:36 pm)aleialoura Wrote: I say, fuck your bible for reducing the beauty, enormity, and complexity of the cosmos to a wave of the hand by some invisible person.
Your 'god' is an irrelevancy. What I despise are people who push their own hatreds and superstitions on others because of their fucking god. I wonder if you can see the difference?
(September 13, 2011 at 12:35 pm)salty Wrote: I acknowledge that you don't feel the Bible gives creation enough complexity. It breaks creation down into a mere seven day period and makes it all look so simple. You're right Alei, God deserves more praise, more glory. He deserves to be exalted in every way, because what we find to be extremely complex, he does with a wave of his hand.
...it's so easy to make you angry...and for all your harsh words, what do they do to stop the Christian movement? Nothing. What do they do to stop me from talking about the goodness of God? Nothing. We can keep this battle up all day, but in the end I will be victorious on both accounts.
1. If I am wrong. I have lost nothing by following the teachings that give me patience to endure you and many like you. If I am wrong, you have lost nothing and lived a good life.
2. If I am right. I have lost nothing, I have trusted an eternal and loving God and will be welcomed into his kingdom because I love his justice and righteousness. If I am right, you have lost everything and will be judged according to your deeds. God knows the outcome.
You believe in chance correct? If there's a chance that I'm wrong, there's also a chance that I'm right, because your education can tell you nothing about what happens to the soul after the body dies. Look in your telescope all you want, read all your books, but you will not know what happens until it's your turn. Good luck.
Well we happen to know for a fact (by "we" I mean rational people who would never do something like replace thinking with faith) that there is no chance whatsoever that the story of creation is factual.
It sounds to me like you're jealous of my education. You can't get a proper education because you're not mentally sound. Anyone who says that God created things with a wave of a hand, especially things of which you have no concept, is beyond help. You're doomed to live among the masses of deluded people, and present all the symptoms of a ruined psyche. My education, as it stands, isn't terribly extensive. I have an associates of science in psychology, which is how I know you're coo-coo, and I am working on my bachelors of astrophysics. I am proud to maintain a 4.0, and be at the top of my class.
I don't know anything about your education, but I really don't have to know anything about it because you're a creationist, which is the equivalent of being a 1st grader waiting for Santa.
I know nothing of any god's justice. I've actually read the bible, and I didn't see any justice. I'm pretty sure that all those babies who died the night god brought himself into the world to "Save us", sure didn't feel like god was being just. Didn't he know Herod would do that? Fuck, he knows enough about discretion to give all his fans not a particle of evidence he exists, you'd think he'd know how to keep his first coming under wraps so all those mothers wouldn't have had to watch their babies being run through with swords.
Righteous is a big word. It means being correct. Until you can prove that you're correct, don't let it hurt your brain by forming the word.
If you're right, and he will judge me by my deeds, then I don't have to worry about anything. I'm a very nice, giving, and loving person... so why should I have any fear? The difference between my goodness and your goodness, is mine is not based on fear. I'm good because I desire to be good. I have a conscience that's based purely upon compassion and love for my fellow man, however deluded most of them can be.
You basically just admitted that you're taking the safe road. You have nothing to lose either way, so... You don't know what you're losing. The more you know, the more you know you don't know... but since you know you're right, you actually know nothing, and don't even know it.
Meeee too!!
