(September 13, 2011 at 9:18 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:I don't know anything about your education

I'll bet there is a religious school somewhere in that pipeline.

No doubt. Classic indoctrination. Tragic, but still no excuse. I was indoctrinated by Catholics, so I would know. Plain ol' logic, FTW!

(September 13, 2011 at 12:35 pm)salty Wrote:

(September 13, 2011 at 7:33 am)Justtristo Wrote:

(September 12, 2011 at 1:50 pm)salty Wrote: Here. I found a website for you to explore in your spare time: http://www.godandscience.org. There's an "Answers for Atheists" section and at the bottom of the page "Common Atheist Myths." Let me know what you find.

That site argues for the earth being 4.6 billion years old and only a local not global flood being behind the story of Noah's Ark. Those alone is seen as heretical by large number of Christians who will maintain the universe is only 6000 years old and that around 4000 years old there was a massive global flood which wiped out all of humanity expect for 8 people.

Please note the tab and the topic, show me the link. There's a lot on there and I'm already a believer, so I'm not hanging out in the creation sections.

I have provided the relevant link below.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/creation.html

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(September 13, 2011 at 8:23 pm)aleialoura Wrote:

(September 13, 2011 at 7:42 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

(September 13, 2011 at 7:37 am)Justtristo Wrote:

(September 12, 2011 at 11:36 pm)aleialoura Wrote: I say, fuck your bible for reducing the beauty, enormity, and complexity of the cosmos to a wave of the hand by some invisible person.

Can I quote that please?

Meeee too!!

Quote away!

Thank You

The header of that embarrassing but hilarious website is the most interesting part.

An old, naked, homeless man reaching out to touch what is either a garland of party balloons, or a strand of DNA. Then for some reason it says "Evidence For God".

I didn't find any evidence for god, but I did find some disturbing fan fiction.

(September 13, 2011 at 10:42 pm)aleialoura Wrote: The header of that embarrassing but hilarious website is the most interesting part.

An old, naked, homeless man reaching out to touch what is either a garland of party balloons, or a strand of DNA. Then for some reason it says "Evidence For God".

I didn't find any evidence for god, but I did find some disturbing fan fiction.

Indeed and I have read some quite disturbing fan fiction in my time.

Salty, a few of us have partially defended you to some of the more aggressive respondents on the basis of your courtesy and apparent sincerity. Since then, you've become substantially less impressive to me. You've spent a lot of time basically preaching, dedicating a lot of time to my fairly flippant question about heaven and ignoring the far more pertinent questions about evidence against a young Earth. When will you actually be getting round to addressing the quite simply undeniable evidence that the Earth is far older than you believe and the flood and Exodus never happened?

You've also shown how flimsy your faith is by invoking Pascal's Wager, which Rhythm has already pointed out is a very obvious fallacy.

It's becoming a really poor showing from you. Better get to addressing the evidence against a young Earth. Your mental acrobatics are ambitious but getting boring.

(September 13, 2011 at 1:29 pm)Rhythm Wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

You actually haven't given this much thought. You'd need to apply that wager to every faith in order to hedge your bets. You cannot do this, due to the many contradictory teachings of those faiths. Most are also mutually exclusive.

Do you pray to Allah 5 times a day? Might want to hedge your bets.
(list continues ad infinitum)

Also, as long as you're clinging to genesis as an accurate account of material creation (and especially a young earth), there is no chance that you're correct.

Let's recall where we are, we are in the "Christianity" section of the forum, therefore my response is based on the belief that Christian teaching is the only teaching that will lead to a life in Heaven. Even people who do not know the name of Christ, will be covered by his sacrifice because they are obeying his laws in their lives and honoring God. Therefore Christianity splits the world in two: those who love righteousness and justice and those who do not, also known as Jew & Gentile.

Christians are grafted into the Jewish family as spiritual children of Abraham (obviously not ethnically). Once again I believe that by living through the teachings of Jesus Christ I am losing nothing, and even if the chance came about that I am wrong, I am not concerned, a life without Jesus Christ is Hell anyway, therefore no damnation from any other entity would frighten or upset me. Now that I have had God in my life for 12 years, I can't imagine surviving even one hour without his love and mercy.

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(September 13, 2011 at 1:42 pm)Faith No More Wrote: So salty, would you say that a big part of your faith is out of fear of being on the wrong side?

No. When I didn't believe I was pretty sure that I would get something good because I rarely ever got into trouble and I was pretty nice. My faith in Jesus came when I decided to invite him to reign over my life. It was a trial period. If he didn't do anything, then I was done with Jesus, if he did something, then I knew he was real and I would follow him. He showed up and I was hooked.

(September 13, 2011 at 8:09 pm)padraic Wrote:

Quote:If I am wrong. I have lost nothing by following the teachings that give me patience to endure you and many like you. If I am wrong, you have lost nothing and lived a good life.
2. If I am right. I have lost nothing,

Oh for goodness sake! Pascal's wager? Is that the best you can do?

Your assertion also implies an atheist cannot live a good (moral) life.That is an ignorant and impertinent thing to say.

Patience to endure us? What? Were you forced to come here? No you were not. Please try avoid patronising us, there's a good girl. Not for our sake you understand,indeedly doodly not. Because I think you're probably quite nice really,but in the post I quoted, you come across as a smug bitch.

Pad, let's clear this up, between the two of us:
1. "Is that the best you can do?" - Being myself, speaking my mind, telling you what I have learned is the best I can do. I love the person I've become and I love that I am changing and growing even now, to become a better person in the future, all through the love of Christ.
2. Patience to endure - I was speaking directly to Aleia and I was speaking about people with her kind of anger toward me specifically, an anger that brings about personal insult, not just irritation with an opposing thought. Atheists are capable of disagreeing and being respectful at the same time, unless you Pad are saying it's otherwise, and we both know you can't speak for every atheist.
3. Never heard of Pascal's Wager until now. My belief is simple: what do you lose by following the teachings of Christ? I assert: you lose nothing, instead you gain everything.
4. I said, "..lived a good life." Does that somehow mean immoral? I don't think it does. A good life to me means you have lived with no regrets, you enjoyed your time and then it's over. You are the one that has thrown in this idea that I'm excluding morality, which I am not. I believe that everyone has a sense of morality.
5. I came to this forum of my own accord and I expected some attitude because my opinions were different, but never to the heights of which I have experienced from some people. Also, am I not responsible to answer for all that I have said among you? What kind of Christian would I be to say something and then "disappear?" Maybe that's how the people you've met in the past react, but you're talking to me now...I do not back down from what I have said, even if I have contradicted myself, I would rather apologize than give anyone fakeness. Pad, I choose my words and I will stand by them. I deliberate over how I will "speak" to everyone on this forum, because I care and I want you (and them) to recognize me when I am there, in person. It is my goal to meet people from this forum, so that a real conversation can insue, one where you can look into my eyes and see just how serious I am about you and about the Lord.
6. Little girl? I'm sure it would all be very different if we were speaking in person.
7. I can only sound smug if you think I'm right, apparently my confidence is in something that doesn't exist. Someone with confidence in something that doesn't exist doesn't sound smug, just ignorant.

What is your response Pad? You too seem like a nice guy.

(September 14, 2011 at 2:01 pm)salty Wrote: No. When I didn't believe I was pretty sure that I would get something good because I rarely ever got into trouble and I was pretty nice.

Get something from who?

salty Wrote:My faith in Jesus came when I decided to invite him to reign over my life. It was a trial period. If he didn't do anything, then I was done with Jesus, if he did something, then I knew he was real and I would follow him. He showed up and I was hooked.

How did Jesus 'show up'?

(September 14, 2011 at 3:19 pm)salty Wrote: 3. Never heard of Pascal's Wager until now. My belief is simple: what do you lose by following the teachings of Christ? I assert: you lose nothing, instead you gain everything.

And as has already been asserted: If you believe that, then you absolutely must follow EVERY set of religious teachings, which is of course impossible.

It was demonstrated to you how absurd it was. Substitute the word Christ for Allah, Krishna or the Flying Spaghetti Monster and you cannot help but see how flimsy an argument this is. The fact that you are a Christian and therefore you 'know' that your God is the right one does not make this point any less valid. More absence of logic, salty. If you had been raised in a Muslim country you would absolutely undoubtedly be saying the same thing about Mohammad or Allah.

If all this makes you feel better, then so be it. I think you have some misconceptions of yourself because of your education. You call me deluded, yet you feel you're a compassionate person, have you read any of the things you've said to me lately? Clearly you don't look over your shoulder to consider how you treat others, therefore you do not know what it means to be forgiving and kind. If we had someone evaluate the two of us through our posts, they would certainly maintain that you are defending your ego and your point of view with tactics that declare you have resentment issues with the deity called God, which extends to his followers and even people you do not know in person. Wouldn't you agree that people are different in person, not because they will say different things, but beacuse they have shown themselves in the flesh? Haven't you noticed that I have no need to attack your beliefs because they do not hinder me or scare me? Haven't you noticed that you are angry with an invisible force that "cannot" exist, that kills children, smashing their heads against rocks. Why isn't your passionate disgust directed at the millions of mothers that disassemble their children in the womb through abortion, using instruments to pull them into pieces and cut off their limbs. Why aren't you going after them, instead of a dusty old book that has "made up stories" about people doing killing people? At least, as far as you believe, these stories aren't true, but abortion is happening everyday, around the world. Aleia, stop defending your ego and open your eyes. I am not your enemy and neither is God.

Also, it's easy to be compassionate to people you like, but being compassionate with people you don't like, that's when virtue really shows. Show me this virtue you speak of, respond to me with some respect.

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(September 14, 2011 at 3:35 am)ElDinero Wrote: Salty, a few of us have partially defended you to some of the more aggressive respondents on the basis of your courtesy and apparent sincerity. Since then, you've become substantially less impressive to me. You've spent a lot of time basically preaching, dedicating a lot of time to my fairly flippant question about heaven and ignoring the far more pertinent questions about evidence against a young Earth. When will you actually be getting round to addressing the quite simply undeniable evidence that the Earth is far older than you believe and the flood and Exodus never happened?

You've also shown how flimsy your faith is by invoking Pascal's Wager, which Rhythm has already pointed out is a very obvious fallacy.

It's becoming a really poor showing from you. Better get to addressing the evidence against a young Earth. Your mental acrobatics are ambitious but getting boring.

El Dinero,
I am one person. I am the only one defending Christianity while there are many defending atheist views. I did not come here to impress you instead I invite you to be patient with me as others have been. I'm answering these questions the best I can, with the knowledge I have right now. I have been provided a link for Evolution, I have been provided a link for Pascal's Wager and for the young earth theory. I will look over them and I will respond in due time. I noticed that I skipped a question of yours on heaven, sorry, I will look back to see if it's something I can address now. In the meantime I am addressing people one at a time in the order they posted.

What I can tell you now:
1. I still believe in a young earth because I believe that the Bible is a credible source for history, not because I have proved otherwise. I am open to believing that the earth may be old and I will look over the information provided.
2. I appreciate people defending me, which is something they do of their own accord based on their own experiences with me. Why do you feel the need to defend me? Have your thoughts of me changed so quickly, with people posting things while I am away? I haven't backed down, there's no need to. I can admit that I'm wrong and have faith at the same time. El Dinero, let time tell you what kind of person I am, let my responses to you speak for me. I have no problem with acquiring another enemy, but I do not want to lose a friend before he/she actually knows me, for me.
3. If you've read any of my posts you'll see that I am not scientifically minded. I have the ability to understand some scientifc things, but I have not desired it in the past, it is only my connection to this forum that demands more scientific knowledge of me, which is good. Have mercy on me for not knowing some things and for defending my honor in the midst of some angry responses. I must make it known that I am a Christian, but that doesn't make me a wimp.

What say you, El Dinero? Will you give me some time?

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(September 14, 2011 at 3:26 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(September 14, 2011 at 2:01 pm)salty Wrote: No. When I didn't believe I was pretty sure that I would get something good because I rarely ever got into trouble and I was pretty nice.

Get something from who?

salty Wrote:My faith in Jesus came when I decided to invite him to reign over my life. It was a trial period. If he didn't do anything, then I was done with Jesus, if he did something, then I knew he was real and I would follow him. He showed up and I was hooked.

How did Jesus 'show up'?

I believed there was a God, but I didn't know who he was, just thought of him as someone on a cloud watching me.

Jesus showed up after I invited him into my life. I walked into high school one morning and everything seemed to be moving slowly, like I wasn't there, I heard something...inside me? I heard a voice ask me, "Is this what you want?" I knew immediately that the voice wanted to know if I wanted to stay the way that I was or if I really wanted a change. I answered that I wanted to change.

From then on things started changing in my life, when I read the Bible I didn't fall asleep anymore I actually understood what it was saying. When I prayed it felt like a huge weight had been lifted off of me, like he was telling me that he could hear me. My attitude and the way I view other people shifted dramatically.

Thanks for asking.