(July 30, 2018 at 9:13 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote: [edit]

My favorite american of all time is Bill Burr though, i love that guy.

You don't know it yet but I'll soon be your favorite.

I mean just for reference i guess

Bernie is a good person overall and is sincere. But his policies aren't set in reality. Nor is that chick from New York. (Yes, I know I just triggered 90% of the users here just by saying that) but the nations that use what he is proposing usually aren't saddled with the same issues we have in the U.S.

I.e. large population, abuse of our social programs and so on. Also, lets not forget these nordic countries don't have to worry about paying for their own defense. It's usually footed by NATO and the United States.

(July 30, 2018 at 10:47 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote:

(July 30, 2018 at 10:33 am)Mathilda Wrote: So tell us. What aspects of reality are denied by socialism?

Well first of that capitalism is bad even though its productive, maybe if one wants empathy model then social programs but capitalism is pretty much good. Atleast i dont know of any better economic model so far to make a country prosperious.

At the expense of someone or something else. Capitalism works while there is an environment to expand into and exploit. Free market capitalism doesn't work for the third world countries that are late in developing because they can't compete with the first world. You need to read 23 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism

Capitalism makes some people prosperous at the expense of others and over time this inequality gets worse, which is what we are currently seeing. Find out about fractional reserve banking which means that the economy has to continually expand exponentially just in order to function. If not then we fall into recession, or worse deflation. Thermoeconomics tells us that capitalism is not sustainable in its current form unless we leave the gravity well of the Earth. Read up about about the Long Emergency. Resources are being exponentially depleted while demand is growing exponentially. We are heading for an almighty cliff of sustainability and we have one shot and one shot only to continue progressing. An excellent and easy read is The Crash Course: The Unsustainable Future of Our Economy, Energy, and Environment

Basically the human race is fucked if it continues with capitalism because self-interest does not solve the Tragedy of the commons.

Not only that but capitalism can only function if a percentage of other people or countries fail.

There is not enough money in existence to pay off all the debt because money is loaned out with interest, both of which need to be paid back. This is how money is created in the system. The result of this is that a certain percentage of the population need to fail. This is a youtube documentary to explain it simply to you.

(July 30, 2018 at 10:47 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote: But really its because it thinks it knows best about issues, so if socialism runs the country there is no one to challenge it on free speech, because it can define what is hate speech or not. Not based on facts or anything.

That's not socialism.

(July 30, 2018 at 10:47 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote: Just look at United Kingdom lately in terms of free speech its clearly very into neo marxism mentally all together of what you can say or not say. Controversial maybe, but the fact that they can dictate what you can say is really just sad

I live in the UK. The country has been moving progressively further to the right since the 80's. What you are saying is completely untrue. Have you ever been here?

(July 30, 2018 at 8:19 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote: Socialism is just as bad as fascism.

Someone's been eating from the trashcan I see...

(July 30, 2018 at 11:04 am)Libertarian God Wrote: Bernie is a good person overall and is sincere. But his policies aren't set in reality. Nor is that chick from New York. (Yes, I know I just triggered 90% of the users here just by saying that) but the nations that use what he is proposing usually aren't saddled with the same issues we have in the U.S.

I.e. large population, abuse of our social programs and so on. Also, lets not forget these nordic countries don't have to worry about paying for their own defense. It's usually footed by NATO and the United States.

You haven't triggered me, but did you know our latest increase in defense spending, not the whole budget, just the increase, would pay for free college.

(July 30, 2018 at 11:11 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(July 30, 2018 at 10:47 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote: Well first of that capitalism is bad even though its productive, maybe if one wants empathy model then social programs but capitalism is pretty much good. Atleast i dont know of any better economic model so far to make a country prosperious.

At the expense of someone or something else. Capitalism works while there is an environment to expand into and exploit. Free market capitalism doesn't work for the third world countries that are late in developing because they can't compete with the first world. You need to read 23 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism

Capitalism makes some people prosperous at the expense of others and over time this inequality gets worse, which is what we are currently seeing. Find out about fractional reserve banking which means that the economy has to continually expand exponentially just in order to function. If not then we fall into recession, or worse deflation. Thermoeconomics tells us that capitalism is not sustainable in its current form unless we leave the gravity well of the Earth. Read up about about the Long Emergency. Resources are being exponentially depleted while demand is growing exponentially. We are heading for an almighty cliff of sustainability and we have one shot and one shot only to continue progressing. An excellent and easy read is The Crash Course: The Unsustainable Future of Our Economy, Energy, and Environment

Basically the human race is fucked if it continues with capitalism because self-interest does not solve the Tragedy of the commons.

Not only that but capitalism can only function if a percentage of other people or countries fail.

There is not enough money in existence to pay off all the debt because money is loaned out with interest, both of which need to be paid back. This is how money is created in the system. The result of this is that a certain percentage of the population need to fail. This is a youtube documentary to explain it simply to you.

---

---

(July 30, 2018 at 10:47 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote: But really its because it thinks it knows best about issues, so if socialism runs the country there is no one to challenge it on free speech, because it can define what is hate speech or not. Not based on facts or anything.

That's not socialism.

(July 30, 2018 at 10:47 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote: Just look at United Kingdom lately in terms of free speech its clearly very into neo marxism mentally all together of what you can say or not say. Controversial maybe, but the fact that they can dictate what you can say is really just sad

I live in the UK. The country has been moving progressively further to the right since the 80's. What you are saying is completely untrue. Have you ever been here?

So because exploitation exists within capitalistic model you are saying go red and let everybody starve?. Not really seeing how that utopia is gonna look like or how productive its gonna be. How about just call out the corrupt institutions and make other countries productive.

So because exploitation exists within capitalistic model you are saying go red and let everybody starve?. Not really seeing how that utopia is gonna look like or how productive its gonna be. How about just call out the corrupt institutions and make other countries productive.

(July 30, 2018 at 11:29 am)The Industrial Atheist Wrote:

(July 30, 2018 at 11:04 am)Libertarian God Wrote: Bernie is a good person overall and is sincere. But his policies aren't set in reality. Nor is that chick from New York. (Yes, I know I just triggered 90% of the users here just by saying that) but the nations that use what he is proposing usually aren't saddled with the same issues we have in the U.S.

I.e. large population, abuse of our social programs and so on. Also, lets not forget these nordic countries don't have to worry about paying for their own defense. It's usually footed by NATO and the United States.

You haven't triggered me, but did you know our latest increase in defense spending, not the whole budget, just the increase, would pay for free college.

That's a fair argument. I can agree that our defense spending is quite large and in fact unnecessary. Seems that could like you said pay for some of these things. The money is obviously there, it just seems to be wasted and misused. Growing up, my folks taught me how to keep a budget and stick to one. Amazes me how the U.S. government has yet to figure this out. I understand there's a lot of moving parts, but still. BUDGET. PROPERLY.

(July 30, 2018 at 11:31 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote: So because exploitation exists within capitalistic model you are saying go red and let everybody starve?. Not really seeing how that utopia is gonna look like or how productive its gonna be. How about just call out the corrupt institutions and make other countries productive.

No. I am saying that there are many aspects of reality that are denied by capitalism and also refuting your assertion that it is good for everybody. It inherently is not good for everyone by design. Capitalism cannot function without there being losers who get exploited and discarded.

What I am saying is that due to the challenges the human race now face, it is entirely fucked if it relies on capitalism. We need a collective response to overcome what we are facing, and even then we might very well not manage it.

Add to that increased automation, there is even more need now for the means of production to be taken out of the hands of a few individuals.

(July 30, 2018 at 11:31 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote: Not really seeing how that utopia is gonna look like or how productive its gonna be. How about just call out the corrupt institutions and make other countries productive.

Did you even read what I posted or understand it? Who is talking about a utopia? Who is talking about corruption? Not me.  Stop making a strawman argument.

It is not as simple as saying we can just make other countries more productive. In terms of the long emergency this actually just makes the problem worse.

Society is dependent on finite resources that are fast running out.

By the way, you still haven't provided an example of a socialist country that is not communist.