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RE: The absolute absurdity of God
August 6, 2018 at 3:22 pm
........................................lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The absolute absurdity of God
August 6, 2018 at 3:25 pm
Quote:What is a theist?
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
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RE: The absolute absurdity of God
August 6, 2018 at 3:28 pm
(August 6, 2018 at 3:18 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (August 6, 2018 at 1:21 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Well then, what is a god?
What is a theist?
An anti-atheist.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: The absolute absurdity of God
August 6, 2018 at 3:41 pm
(This post was last modified: August 6, 2018 at 4:18 pm by Simon Moon.)
(August 6, 2018 at 12:30 pm)SteveII Wrote: I agree, creating the world to be a test is absurd. Unfortunately, your post is one long straw man argument.
Your mythology may not specifically state the the universe was created as a test, but there is no way around that is the end results.
We are put here with only 2 possible outcomes, according to Christian mythology: eternity in Heaven, or eternity in Hell (or eternal separation from Yahweh). And our choices will determine that outcome. And supposedly your god makes the decision on what our fate is by those decisions.
Sorry, but a test by any other name, is still a test.
Quote:There is no way you can construe Christianity as God "created the earth as a test for human beings". You should at least pick something someone actually believes before bashing it in a post that must have taken some time to write.
-Nobody asked for, or agreed to take
Since our purpose if not really a test, the most you can say is that we all have decisions/responses to make given the information we are presented with. That is simply defining being a conscious, morally-culpable person.
-The rules for which aren't made immediately clear
There are rules--you got one right. God will judge you on your response to what has been revealed to you.
Again, if I am being judged by decisions I make, I am being tested. What else would you call it?
And by the way, why would this god create me, with a mind that would not be able to be convinced that he exists, with the evidence and arguments I am given to evaluate the proposition, knowing well in advance of these results, that I am will be condemned to hell?
Quote:-Is rigged against us from the beginning
Free will entails sinning. Sinning entails a need for atonement if you want the max out of life. Don't want the max out of life, don't seek atonement.
Then it's his fault for his "divine hiddenness". How is it my fault for not being gullible enough to fall for fallacious arguments, lack of good evidence?
Quote:-Has the sole purpose of determining an eternal afterlife
The purpose of this life is not a test. It is for maximum enjoyment/fulfillment/experience--which includes recognizing and responding to God.
The test may not be the only purpose, but it is an unavoidable part of the deal. My decisions in life, determine my afterlife. If not a test, what is it?
Let me add, one of Oxford's definitions of the word "test",
An event or situation that reveals the strength or quality of someone or something by putting them under strain.
The "event or situation" in this scenario is life on Earth, what is being revealed is whether I "atone for my sins, accept Jesus as my savior", and the evaluator is Yahweh.
Please explain how our life on earth does not fit this definition of "test"...
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: The absolute absurdity of God
August 6, 2018 at 4:55 pm
(August 6, 2018 at 3:41 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (August 6, 2018 at 12:30 pm)SteveII Wrote: I agree, creating the world to be a test is absurd. Unfortunately, your post is one long straw man argument.
Your mythology may not specifically state the the universe was created as a test, but there is no way around that is the end results.
We are put here with only 2 possible outcomes, according to Christian mythology: eternity in Heaven, or eternity in Hell (or eternal separation from Yahweh). And our choices will determine that outcome. And supposedly your god makes the decision on what our fate is by those decisions.
Sorry, but a test by any other name, is still a test.
No, sorry. Having different possible outcomes does not make something a 'test'. Otherwise nearly everything is a test and the word becomes meaningless. To support this silly premise, you need to show that there was no other purpose than a 'test'. Because there is clearly another purposes: to glorify God and enjoy him forever (Westminster Shorter Catechism). Need some Bible Reference? Check our Got Answers. The fact there are two possible outcomes at the end of a life is a consequence of the system--not created by God--but essential to God. Our sins need to be atoned for to satisfy his Justice/Holiness to be in his presence. Atoned-for/not-atoned-for are the two options. No 'tests'.
Quote:Quote:There is no way you can construe Christianity as God "created the earth as a test for human beings". You should at least pick something someone actually believes before bashing it in a post that must have taken some time to write.
-Nobody asked for, or agreed to take
Since our purpose if not really a test, the most you can say is that we all have decisions/responses to make given the information we are presented with. That is simply defining being a conscious, morally-culpable person.
-The rules for which aren't made immediately clear
There are rules--you got one right. God will judge you on your response to what has been revealed to you.
Again, if I am being judged by decisions I make, I am being tested. What else would you call it?
Judged by your decisions. Do you think when you appear in criminal court the judge declares "you failed your test!"
Quote:And by the way, why would this god create me, with a mind that would not be able to be convinced that he exists, with the evidence and arguments I am given to evaluate the proposition, knowing well in advance of these results, that I am will be condemned to hell?
Quote:-Is rigged against us from the beginning
Free will entails sinning. Sinning entails a need for atonement if you want the max out of life. Don't want the max out of life, don't seek atonement.
Then it's his fault for his "divine hiddenness". How is it my fault for not being gullible enough to fall for fallacious arguments, lack of good evidence?
His knowledge of what you will freely choose does not transfer the burden. Perhaps the event that will lead you to believe has not happened yet. Unfortunately it may never happen. But creating the world and humans has a much higher net value than not.
Quote:Quote:-Has the sole purpose of determining an eternal afterlife
The purpose of this life is not a test. It is for maximum enjoyment/fulfillment/experience--which includes recognizing and responding to God.
The test may not be the only purpose, but it is an unavoidable part of the deal. My decisions in life, determine my afterlife. If not a test, what is it?
Let me add, one of Oxford's definitions of the word "test",
An event or situation that reveals the strength or quality of someone or something by putting them under strain.
The "event or situation" in this scenario is life on Earth, what is being revealed is whether I "atone for my sins, accept Jesus as my savior", and the evaluator is Yahweh.
Please explain how our life on earth does not fit this definition of "test"...
Because it is a secondary effect, not a primary purpose.
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RE: The absolute absurdity of God
August 6, 2018 at 7:34 pm
You're having trouble with words today, Steve.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The absolute absurdity of God
August 7, 2018 at 12:58 pm
If a god made the universe (that is everything that exists) where was he before he did it? (Heaven is not an answer because that must be part of "everything that exists")
The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will fly to the stars.
Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups
Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud ..... after a while you realise that the pig likes it!
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RE: The absolute absurdity of God
August 7, 2018 at 2:16 pm
(August 7, 2018 at 12:58 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote: If a god made the universe (that is everything that exists) where was he before he did it? (Heaven is not an answer because that must be part of "everything that exists")
Are you asking what material space did an immaterial being occupied? That question contains a logical contradiction.
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RE: The absolute absurdity of God
August 7, 2018 at 2:19 pm
(This post was last modified: August 7, 2018 at 2:20 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The alternative being... immaterial space...hmn? Damn, you're right..it's almost as if there's something fundamentally wrong with this whole creator contention! 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The absolute absurdity of God
August 7, 2018 at 2:25 pm
(This post was last modified: August 7, 2018 at 2:26 pm by robvalue.)
The void surrounding God is, to me, representative of the lack of thought that actually goes into what the "other side" would be like. Our creator is always the sole thing in its reality (before making all this for no good reason), if it's even acknowledged that it has a reality to exist in. Anything else seems to spoil the story.
And I have to say: religious stories are the most absurd thing that a large proportion of adults take seriously.
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