With your attitude Jo, if that was true, you would have no way to know, since you can't affirm proofs, to know those who don't have them from those who do, with your disgusting stubborn attitude against God and his proofs there is no way to know anything worth knowing.

You can't even get past the basics.

Malcolm X's religion did not mean shit to me. I admire the man and his place in U.S. history. White supremacy and Jim Crow was not giving way. We had two men offering two opposing solutions to this racial tyranny. MLK, offering shame and martyrdom or Malcolm offering a self defense philosophy that did not stop at outright warfare.This dichotomy forced Americans to choose accepting their shame and giving way towards racial integration. Malcolm (and the Panthers) deserve credit for this.

(August 11, 2018 at 7:23 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: With your attitude Jo, if that was true, you would have no way to know, since you can't affirm proofs, to know those who don't have them from those who do, with your disgusting stubborn attitude against God and his proofs there is no way to know anything worth knowing.

You can't even get past the basics.

My argument is with you, not with your god. Perhaps he's a swell guy and there are clear proofs and valuable guidance, but if I depend upon my interactions with you to find that out, I never will. You're a cipher, Mystic. A nothing.

(August 12, 2018 at 1:06 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(August 11, 2018 at 7:23 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: With your attitude Jo, if that was true, you would have no way to know, since you can't affirm proofs, to know those who don't have them from those who do, with your disgusting stubborn attitude against God and his proofs there is no way to know anything worth knowing.

You can't even get past the basics.

My argument is with you, not with your god.  Perhaps he's a swell guy and there are clear proofs and valuable guidance, but if I depend upon my interactions with you to find that out, I never will.  You're a cipher, Mystic.  A nothing.

No your problem is against me only because of your opposition to God's proofs. Otherwise, there is no personal problem between you and I.

(August 12, 2018 at 10:16 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(August 12, 2018 at 1:06 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

My argument is with you, not with your god.  Perhaps he's a swell guy and there are clear proofs and valuable guidance, but if I depend upon my interactions with you to find that out, I never will.  You're a cipher, Mystic.  A nothing.

No your problem is against me only because of your opposition to God's proofs. Otherwise, there is no personal problem between you and I.

Oh? So now you're a mind reader? Maybe if you would deal with my actual beliefs and positions instead of what you merely wish they were then you'd have more success.

But we both know you won't do that because then you'd have to acknowledge your failure. But keep on pretending you and God are synonymous. And I'll keep speaking the truth.

(August 12, 2018 at 10:21 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(August 12, 2018 at 10:16 am)MysticKnight Wrote: No your problem is against me only because of your opposition to God's proofs. Otherwise, there is no personal problem between you and I.

Oh?  So now you're a mind reader?  Maybe if you would deal with my actual beliefs and positions instead of what you merely wish they were then you'd have more success.

But we both know you won't do that because then you'd have to acknowledge your failure.  But keep on pretending you and God are synonymous.  And I'll keep speaking the truth.

Success is not upon me, Messengers and I am a dust compared to them,  who were God's proof and knew how to pick their words according to God's revelation and all their words were manifestation of God's revelation either directly or explaining it or complimenting it,  didn't succeed in getting most people to be come believers.

God will never force an individual to leave their injustice nor a change state of a people till they change what it is in themselves, he increases guidance with guidance and misguidance with misguidance,  but at the end,  I can pray forever for your guidance, try my best, and do everything right, but it's up to you to choose to submit to God and his light and proofs, and accept the truth be it from a child and reject the falsehood be it from the most praised people on earth.

(August 12, 2018 at 10:25 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(August 12, 2018 at 10:21 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Oh?  So now you're a mind reader?  Maybe if you would deal with my actual beliefs and positions instead of what you merely wish they were then you'd have more success.

But we both know you won't do that because then you'd have to acknowledge your failure.  But keep on pretending you and God are synonymous.  And I'll keep speaking the truth.

Success is not upon me, Messengers and I am a dust compared to them,  who were God's proof and knew how to pick their words according to God's revelation and all their words were manifestation of God's revelation either directly or explaining it or complimenting it,  didn't succeed in getting most people to be come believers.

God will never force an individual to leave their injustice nor a change state of a people till they change what it is in themselves, he increases guidance with guidance and misguidance with misguidance,  but at the end,  I can pray forever for your guidance, try my best, and do everything right, but it's up to you to choose to submit to God and his light and proofs, and accept the truth be it from a child and reject the falsehood be it from the most praised people on earth.

Fine. Then why don't you shut up and let God make his case. You're only embarrassing yourself and giving Islam and Allah a black eye with your shitty proofs, claims that we're under the influence of dark forces, and lies about our not performing due diligence and examining your arguments in good faith. You do more to make us turn away than any Allah ever did with constant displays of bad logic, dishonesty, bad faith, and fallacious arguments.

It isn't that your god sucks, Mystic, that is the problem. It's that you suck, and you're getting in the way of people discovering god on their own because you're an egotistical and arrogant twat with shit for brains.

Beyond that, having examined some of the Quran, as well as the arguments for it, it's clear that Muhammad, Islam, the Quran, and shitty modernist apologists like you and Atlas all suck. Whether God himself sucks independent of the bullshit and filth that is Islam is a separate question. But since you're not here pushing a generic God but the specific god of Islam, that distinction doesn't matter.

I call people to go the Quran and the family of that reminder, and been telling people they are more better and more eloquent and more comprehensive in guidance.

That said, sharing knowledge that I do have from there and that I gained through reflection, is not only praised by God, but is an obligatory duty.

I think the only thing I am doing wrong is that I am sharing it with wrong crowd. However, in the story of Yonus, he despaired at people believing and even put all the blame on himself.

The Quran doesn't tell Mohammad not to be like that, because, Mohammad had a chance of being like that, but for believers to know, while such a state of Yonus injustice to himself was overall more beautiful then ugly, more praiseworthy then to be condemned, it's not something he wants believers to go through.


To blame themselves while it's not really their fault, like Quran says "and he didn't make them (the believers) to be entrusted (in guidance) regarding them (disbelievers)" is not something God wants us to go through, and he showed the deep state of depression where as Yonus was swallowed by his grief in the spiritual world can be the result.

Of course, Yonus, was not prevented from this, only to show the believers the way out of depression and high grief when overwhelmed by it.

Ignoring the fact that going to the Quran and the family hasn't helped your case any, as pointed out previously, both suck, the fact that you excuse your pathetic displays as duty simply illustrates two things. First, that you don't understand morality and responsibility. The "just following orders" defense didn't work for the Nazis at Nuremberg and it doesn't exonerate you for being a moron, a liar, and recklessly immoral. Second, if it indeed is your duty to God, then that god is an idiot who has made a terrible strategic mistake. Since I'm pretty sure that God is not such an idiot, I can only conclude that you follow a false god and your stupid Dawah is just the pathetic outworkings of a corrupt and false religion grabbing for power regardless of how it must distort truth and morals to do so.

(August 12, 2018 at 10:56 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Ignoring the fact that going to the Quran and the family hasn't helped your case any, as pointed out previously, both suck, the fact that you excuse your pathetic displays as duty simply illustrates two things.  First, that you don't understand morality and responsibility.  The "just following orders" defense didn't work for the Nazis at Nuremberg and it doesn't exonerate you for being a moron, a liar, and recklessly immoral.  Second, if it indeed is your duty to God, then that god is an idiot who has made a terrible strategic mistake.  Since I'm pretty sure that God is not such an idiot, I can only conclude that you follow a false god and your stupid Dawah is just the pathetic outworkings of a corrupt and false religion grabbing for power regardless of how it must distort truth and morals to do so.

Every human is capable of reasoning to high levels of enlightenment. When your motivations hate what reason leads to, naturally, you going to misuse it.  You can conclude whatever you want... your misguidance is due to you. Not due to God, not due to me, not due anyone but you, if anyone were to be blamed, it would be the dark enemy of humanity, but at the end,  he can't force you either, it's a choice you do consistently to heed his voice and ignore the call of the caller of God and the Guide of our time.