(September 4, 2018 at 9:46 am)SteveII Wrote: Note the bold. Please provide a list of the "indisputable evidence" that there is no God.

Provide the evidence that I do not have an invisible garage dragon. Of course, you cannot. In your delusion, my invisible garage dragon cannot be proven to not exist. Therefore you must accept it as real. It may seem trivial to you, but that is your argument. Maybe you don't much like that fact. Fine. Stop making such stupid "arguments" in that case. The garage dragon argument is not a claim of fact. It is an illustration of the paucity of yours.

(September 4, 2018 at 9:46 am)SteveII Wrote: Absence such a list, such a belief by definition is not a delusion.

Wrong. You are entirely innocent of any demonstration for the deity of your choice, and nobody but you believes in it bar a population of YOU. Not even your co-rteligionists believe in it. All of them have their very own version, many of whom want to kill you and yours.

(September 4, 2018 at 9:46 am)SteveII Wrote: Note that this is not merely "in spite of no evidence". It is in the face of indisputable evidence to the contrary. 

Yet somehow, you fail to present any evidence at all. Why is that?

(September 4, 2018 at 9:46 am)SteveII Wrote: Even worse for your position is that you cannot even adequately undercut the evidence that people rely on for the religious beliefs. Who's delusional again?

Sure we can. What we cannot prevent is you ignoring all of it.

(September 4, 2018 at 12:23 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: If you are unable to state where on earth you get your moral absolutes, then those clearly are NOT moral absolutes…I ask again. From whence do you garner your moral absolutes? …The question remains. From whence do you glean your moral absolutes? And the fact remains that you are unable to say. Or possibly afraid to say.

This is not a thread about objective morality. This is a thread about delusional beliefs and people who have them...not objective morality. I am not afraid to have that discussion as evidenced by the many threads in which I have done so.

I have been very clear. I believe there are moral facts even if neither I nor anyone else knows exactly what those absolutes are. Is that a delusional belief or is it simply wrong? You haven’t said. I believe that mathematical objects are real, not merely descriptions, a belief I share with a large number of mathematicians. Is that delusional? I believe that the Principle of Non-Contradiction is more than simply a useful construct of the human mind, i.e. that it is real and proscriptive. Is that delusional? I believe there are real objects from which sense data is pulled. No one can actually prove that there are real objects corresponding to subjective experience. Is that delusional?

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(September 4, 2018 at 12:41 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: ...I do not have an invisible garage dragon. Of course, you cannot. In your delusion, my invisible garage dragon cannot be proven to not exist. Therefore you must accept it as real. It may seem trivial to you, but that is your argument.

Now you're just acting like a douchebag by parroting New Atheist nonsense. Intentionally (or stupidly, take your pick) conflating 'entities within the physical universe' with 'entities that transcend the physical', is a huge category error. If that is your argument, then in all honesty, I cannot take you seriously.

(September 4, 2018 at 12:23 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(September 4, 2018 at 11:41 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: It absolutely is circular because human beings are not naturally equal. There are all kinds of metrics by which people vary not the least of which are sex, intelligence, age, health, stature, and attractiveness. Any one or more of those natural inequalities could (and has been) used to deny the dignity due to every human being. And if you think that is obvious then you are at odds with the overwhelming judgment of cultures over history for thousands of years. I would suggest that the only reason it is 'obvious' is because Judeo-Christian values, developed over 2000 years, are so embedded in Western culture that even secular people in those societies take them for granted.

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That is irrelevant. The question is about delusions. Are you saying that anyone who believes something, like "humans are existentially equals" or "pederasty is evil",...that person is delusional? Suppose that person has no reason to support that belief. Does that, in-and-of-itself, make that person delusional.

Is the belief in categorical imperatives delusional?

Is it delusional to believe in mathematical objects?

No. It absolutely is not irrelevant.

If you are unable to state where on earth you get your moral absolutes, then those clearly are NOT moral absolutes.

Furthermore, Judeo-christian values have propagated violence, mysogyny, hate, genocide, paedophilia and incest for those very same 2,000 years and continue to do so to this very day.

I ask again. From whence do you garner your moral absolutes? It cannot be the bible, nor the Torah, nor that Koran. Those would make you a monster, and I am sure you don't want that.

The question remains. From whence do you glean your moral absolutes? And the fact remains that you are unable to say. Or possibly afraid to say.

Wooter will just keep bombarding you with worthless question as smart as he imagines himself he's really just a apologist rhetoric machine mindlessly spewing talking feed to him by his puppet masters.

(September 4, 2018 at 12:43 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(September 4, 2018 at 12:23 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: If you are unable to state where on earth you get your moral absolutes, then those clearly are NOT moral absolutes…I ask again. From whence do you garner your moral absolutes? …The question remains. From whence do you glean your moral absolutes? And the fact remains that you are unable to say. Or possibly afraid to say.

This is not a thread about objective morality. This is a thread about delusional beliefs and people who have them...not objective morality. I am not afraid to have that discussion as evidenced by the many threads in which I have done so.

And you are promoting fervently held beliefs in moral absolutes which are plainly delusional. I am not unaware that you are doing your very best to avoid the consequences of your particular delusion. Nevertheless, it is most definitely on topic. You simply wish it were not.

(September 4, 2018 at 12:43 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: I have been very clear. I believe there are moral facts even if neither I nor anyone else knows exactly what those absolutes are.

Are there? Name one.

(September 4, 2018 at 12:43 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Is that a delusional belief or is it simply wrong? You haven’t said.

It's wrong.

(September 4, 2018 at 12:43 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: I believe that mathematical objects are real, not merely descriptions, a belief I share with a large number of mathematicians. Is that delusional?

Yup. Show me a "mathematical object" else shut up.

(September 4, 2018 at 12:43 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: I believe that the Principle of Non-Contradiction is more than simply a useful construct of the human mind, i.e. that it is real and proscriptive. Is that delusional?

Nope. You simply don't understand it.

(September 4, 2018 at 12:43 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: I believe there are real objects from which sense data is pulled. No one can actually prove that there are real objects corresponding to subjective experience. Is that delusional?

Solipsism. Oh, joy. Well solipsism says your god is equally not real, so you don't want to go there.

Quote:Even worse for your position is that you cannot even adequately undercut the evidence that people rely on for the religious beliefs. Who's delusional again?

If only had any evidence to present not just assertion and dodges and then trying to rewrite the rules to favor their beliefs

As I said before, if believing in a god is personal and that is how one looks at the world, no problemo. Not really a delusion.

It becames a delusion that belief informs ones actions or one uses such beliefs to justify a societal or political stance. When that belief that is personal affects others, therein lies the line between someone with a belief and someone with a delusion.

Quote:This is not a thread about objective morality. This is a thread about delusional beliefs and people who have them...not objective morality. I am not afraid to have that discussion as evidenced by the many threads in which I have done so.

And every time the Subjectivists wipe the floor with you . Your the worst defender of objective morality i have ever seen and every time the Secular Objectivists show your god magic is no basis for morality

(September 4, 2018 at 12:51 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

(September 4, 2018 at 12:23 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: No. It absolutely is not irrelevant.

If you are unable to state where on earth you get your moral absolutes, then those clearly are NOT moral absolutes.

Furthermore, Judeo-christian values have propagated violence, mysogyny, hate, genocide, paedophilia and incest for those very same 2,000 years and continue to do so to this very day.

I ask again. From whence do you garner your moral absolutes? It cannot be the bible, nor the Torah, nor that Koran. Those would make you a monster, and I am sure you don't want that.

The question remains. From whence do you glean your moral absolutes? And the fact remains that you are unable to say. Or possibly afraid to say.

Wooter will just keep bombarding you with worthless question as smart as he imagines himself he's really just a apologist rhetoric machine mindlessly spewing talking feed to him by his puppet masters.

I know. But it amuses me that Neo is utterly unable to define anything. He/she/it cannot define their beliefs, the reasons for those beliefs, the reason that they accept them as true, why anyone else should accept them and so forth. The whole thing is a nonsense which devolves into "prove me wrong".

Well, prove me wrong about my garage dragon. Or the FSM, pasta be upon him. Samey, samey.

Quote:Note the bold. Please provide a list of the "indisputable evidence" that there is no God.

When you prove my invisible undetectable accept through special revelation explanation for everything does not exist

(September 4, 2018 at 12:58 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:This is not a thread about objective morality. This is a thread about delusional beliefs and people who have them...not objective morality. I am not afraid to have that discussion as evidenced by the many threads in which I have done so.

And every time the Subjectivists wipe the floor with you . Your the worst defender of objective morality i have ever seen and every time the Secular Objectivists show your god magic is no basis for morality

Oh, I would happily accuse Neo of having an immoral dog. However, Neo carfully avoids specific claims in threads such as this simply because Neo is scared of having his notions challenged.