(May 2, 2018 at 4:53 am)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(April 25, 2018 at 10:04 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: If some joker's only intention is to find things in Scripture to mock, there is no shortage of material. But that says more about the intentions and character of the reader than the text itself.

I see what you mean. But, in fairness, such mockery is often the repercussion of so many taking the text too seriously. More seriously than it deserves, really.

Plato's marriage schema as outlined in Book V of the Republic is often mocked and teased for its eccentricity. Now, the Republic is one of my favorite books, but I don't get bent out of shape when people poke fun at Plato in this regard. His plan to "breed" philosopher kings is quite absurd. If there is "no shortage of material" to be mocked, one should expect mockery. I can--and will--defend the Republic against the claim that it is not a useful or insightful work of philosophy. It is. But I cannot--and should not--be upset when people poke fun at it for its absurdities.

That fact that you are offended when people mock the Bible really kind of speaks to my point. As you said, the Bible works on different levels, and even I have "gotten something out of" some of the moral parables and teachings. In one regard, you do a disservice to the valuable portions by saying the entire text is beyond reproach.

That is what I see as the crux of the issue. In some ways, you do see the entire text as beyond reproach and above ridicule. And that's your right. But it is also the right of the OP not to share your view on this. And he doesn't. From his perspective, the Bible is no different from the Republic or any other book, and therefore deserves no special treatment.

Christians poke fun at the bible all the time, like Noah's drunken nakedness, etc. We aren't humorless prudes that cannot take a joke. The problem I see is that the douchebag atheists are actually indirectly mocking the intelligence and discernment of religious people by attacking their deeply held convictions. It's completely transparent.

Atheists don't make believers accept the deluge.  They insult and mock their own intelligence by electing to do so all by their onesies.  That some hilarious bullshit is a part of a persons deeply held convictions doesn't alter it's status as hilarious bullshit, or make the person pointing out that they've elected to base their deeply held convictions on hilarious bullshit the transparent asshole in the equation.

It's pretty common, at least among human beings...for people to casually tell other people to stop saying doing or believing in stupid shit. We do it all the time. I don't know why it works you into a lather when the subject of that "stop saying, doing, and believing in stupid shit" convo is your favorite fairy from your favorite bedtime story.

Maybe you need to go find some jesus to help with your anger, resentment, frustration, and inferiority issues.

Quote:The underlying assumption of your question is that any Divine text should be clearly understood across all epochs, by anyone regardless of culture, language, or education level.

I wouldn't think that was beyond the capabilities of some "god," Chad.  Seems like a rather poor communicator to me.

Why do you follow such a putz?

Inversely, you don't need to study and understand science to know how your smartphone works.
The facts of science are real, in everyday real applications, whether you believe them or not.

Show us something real about God that we may be denying? Anything? Anything at all.
I've always said theists are the victims here. It's just child abuse and Stockholm at its finest.

But it's impossible to convince an indoctrinated person using science and logic...
They want to be treated like intelligent adults but at the same time they demand special pleading for their favourite skyfairy?
If you need the warm and fuzzies, go to a religious forum. That's what they're for. Here you'll get the ugly truth.
Why on earth would you think otherwise

(May 2, 2018 at 11:00 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:The underlying assumption of your question is that any Divine text should be clearly understood across all epochs, by anyone regardless of culture, language, or education level.

I wouldn't think that was beyond the capabilities of some "god," Chad.  Seems like a rather poor communicator to me.

Why do you follow such a putz?

IMO the primary point in the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the Koran is clearly stated.

The primary point in the Old Testament is that Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies, only cares about Israelites/Hebrew/Jews.  He doesn't give a damn about anyone else in the entire universe that has at least 200 billion galaxies.

The primary point in the New Testament is that if a person wants to have eternal life and get into the golden cube called New Jerusalem then the person must have faith in Yeshua (Jesus).  So far not one person in human history has ever had enough faith in Yeshua to do what he said a person with faith can easily do.

The primary point in the Koran is that a person has to do everything it says that a believer must do if the person wants to go to paradise.  

If a person wants to have eternal life then he has to make a bet on either Yeshua or Allah.  Yahweh won't do a damn thing for you.

You're forgetting that I can die in battle or throw myself off a cliff (an early version of what would become the american system of eldercare) and get a guaranteed ticket to valhalla.  I'm already on the shortlist for a non-reserved spot, too.

I think a lot of people are reading to much into the ass and oxen passage. There is a much more simple explanation, donkeys are fucking mean.

There is a reason the term “Jack Ass” is still in popular use. Donkeys (especially males) are stubborn and aggressive. When coyotes first showed up in the mid 80’s a lot of the local farmers started to keep donkeys in cow pastures when the calf’s were born. The donkeys would run off the coyotes, I have also seen donkeys in fields with goats for same reason.

If one were to hitch an ass and an ox up to an old time blade plow I could easily see the donkey bite the ox and cause trouble or even death for the plowman.

I would lump this into the same vein as don’t eat pork, or shell fish.

I don’t see this as a veiled medaphore for racial purity. I can’t quote the verse but I seem to remember that certain people’s were off limits for marriage but that may have had to do with the treatment of some of the Israelites war time enemies during the conquest. I just do not see the Old Testament writes as that concerned about hiding a message like that.

(April 24, 2018 at 4:32 am)ignoramus Wrote: Genesis 1:6

"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."

intead of ignoramus can I just call you dummy?

Quote:Basically, God decided to create the sky (a solid dome - "hard as a molten mirror"), so that there was something separating all that damn water which the entire universe is made of. The sky occasionally opens it's windows so that some water can come through - this is why it rains.
Essentially, when NASA launch their rockets, they go "bonk!" against the sky dome and fall back down again, and the reason nobody has been on Mars is because they all drowned on the way.

ah, no.. here's the thing dummy. you are reading a dead language version that allows you to play fast and loose with a modern translation. even if you peer don't call you on this everyone is smart enough to see it, but I'm sure one of you will prove me wrong. (that you all are smart)
If you took say idk a modern translation would you still be able to make the same 'dummy' comments?
let see shall we?
gen 1:6 God said, “Let there be a huge space between the waters. Let it separate water from water.” 7 And that’s exactly what happened. God made the huge space between the waters. He separated the water under the space from the water above it. 8 God called the huge space “sky.” There was evening, and there was morning. It was day two.

Nooope not even if you tried to force it could you make the same observation... maybe that is why you are using a dead dialect, so you can indeed play dummy with the translation and pretend your thoughts are legit... Can't you see how easy it is to unwrap your objection? what does it say about you that you put your faith in a child's understanding of a dead dialect?

Genesis 1:16

Quote:"And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."

Quote:It all sounds well and good, doesn't it? God makes the sun to light the day, and the moon for night-time. Yes, it would indeed be all well and good, if he hadn't already created and named light, dark, day and night two days ago.
It would seem that God finished creating days on the third day... So where the hell did the first two come from?

dummy... you can't be this stupid... Is the sun the only source of light? ever hear of a candle? every hear of light bulb? When God created light... He created actual light waves/the visual spectrum. not a source, but actual radiant light. do you understand the difference? In 16 he created a source of light a governing body that produces light in the day and in the night. before that there was just light and darkness or the absence of light.

Quote:Deuteronomy 22:10

Quote:"Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an ass together."

WTF?  Someone please explain

oxes are 10x stronger than donkeys. the way a yoke works is it puts pressure/pain on the animal who works less. If a ox is tied to a donkey in a yoke the donkey no matter how hard he works is always under a great deal of pain. The yoke is designed to spread the weight equally. a donkey can not equal a ox work ability.

Deuteronomy 23:1

Quote:"He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD."

Quote:That's right girls! No dickie and plums, no entry! Don't even ask about what customs is like when you get there!

so?

(October 4, 2018 at 1:23 pm)Drich Wrote: a donkey can not equal a ox work ability.

Tell that to Neddy on Blackpool beach.

(October 4, 2018 at 1:23 pm)Drich Wrote: oxes are 10x stronger than donkeys. the way a yoke works is it puts pressure/pain on the animal who works less. If a ox is tied to a donkey in a yoke the donkey no matter how hard he works is always under a great deal of pain. The yoke is designed to spread the weight equally. a donkey can not equal a ox work ability.

Yes, and it's obviously much more important to codify something that everybody knew or would find out the moment they tried it than to order them not to have slaves or that women should be treated equally. Why is it that the book records only things that people of that culture could be reasonably expected to understand and already believe? It hasn't been given the name "the goat herder's guide to the galaxy" for nothing.