(September 23, 2011 at 6:14 pm)searchingforanswers Wrote: Forgive me minimalist but isnt the existence of the apostles a sure thing?

Yes, they are well accepted historical figures. He just doesn't want them to exist so therefore they never existed in his mind. The Jesus myth crowd is extremely radical and not very credible in the eyes of secular and Christian historians alike.

(September 23, 2011 at 6:18 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:

(September 23, 2011 at 6:14 pm)searchingforanswers Wrote: Forgive me minimalist but isnt the existence of the apostles a sure thing?

Yes, they are well accepted historical figures. He just doesn't want them to exist so therefore they never existed in his mind. The Jesus myth crowd is extremely radical and not very credible in the eyes of secular and Christian historians alike.

A more meaningless string of words have yet to be strung together by any christian apologist, which says something about the caliber of this turnip. He might as well said no one who would insist in all circumstances that Jesus is the fount of all truth have yet found doubts about Jesus existence credible.

(September 23, 2011 at 6:31 pm)Chuck Wrote: A more meaningless string of words have yet to be strung together by any christian apologist, which says something about the caliber of this turnip. He might as well said no one who would insist in all circumstances that Jesus is the fount of all truth have yet found doubts about Jesus existence credible.

I said secular and Christian historians you dingleberry. You’d have a tough time finding one historian who believes Jesus was a myth no matter whether the historian was a Christian, Muslim, Atheist, or whatever. Try to keep up please.

Evidence?

(September 23, 2011 at 6:36 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: I said secular and Christian historians you dingleberry. You’d have a tough time finding one historian who believes Jesus was a myth no matter whether the historian was a Christian, Muslim, Atheist, or whatever. Try to keep up please.

Is that right? Then where do all those 'Jesus is a myth' theories come from? Sports psychologists?

I think one of the most popular theories is that there was a man, or perhaps several men, who said or did SOME of the things described, with the rest tacked on either from pre-existing myths or for dramatic effect, or to retroactively prove the OT correct. This would make him (at least partially) a myth.

Certainly no historian who didn't have a vested interest in the Bible being true has ever suggested there was anything other than circumstantial evidence for things such as the resurrection. And yet historians of all walks have confirmed the existence of figures such as Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Pizarro, Hitler, Tutankhamun and The Incredible Hulk. ISN'T THAT WEIRD?

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I'll tell you what I did. I punched into Google 'Jesus was a myth'. From there I got the Wikipedia article 'Jesus myth theory'. From there I got a link to this gentleman, who was the first name among several mentioned:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantin-...eb%C5%93uf

You're right Stat, I had a really hard time finding a historian who thought Jesus was a myth. I might need to lie down.

You'll never get far with Waldork by throwing facts at him, El-Din. His kind are impervious to fact.

Fairy tales, OTOH, are quite attractive to bible-thumping lunatics.

(September 23, 2011 at 4:37 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:

(September 23, 2011 at 1:32 am)Cinjin Wrote:

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You got me buddy, I was making it up. Your arguments have always been irrefutable. Your rational thinking and impeccable debate skills have brought nearly all of us to Jesus. The comparisons you have used have always been spot-on and I'm betting that if there's any atheists left on this site - it's just going to be a matter of time before they see the light and accept Jesus as their personal savior extraordinaire.

Oh yeah, you've done REAL well here with your savvy comparisons.

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So you can’t provide an example to back up your assertion? I knew you were being dishonest!

Why would I even bother. I could spend the time and end up listing a dozen of your ridiculous comparisons and EVERYBODY here knows that all you would say is, "nope, that's a legitimate comparison." and why is it? "because I say so"

It would be a pointless endeavor on my part, and more importantly, since everyone here already knows exactly what I'm talking about, I don't have to prove myself. Read any one of the threads that you have spewed forth rhetoric in and you will find an example of what I am referring to.

Quote:Why would you try and tell a Calvinist that his success in debate is measured by conversions? That’s just absurd and actually pretty hilarious.

Classic Stat - turning a phrase so that it looks like I said one thing when my entire point was in a completely different direction. You know good and goddamn well that I was referencing the stupidity of your own comparisons by pointing out that you have never won a debate on this site. It's called sarcasm fucktard, and I was merely pointing out that you were the Pot calling the Kettle black with that absurd claim that atheists throw out ridiculous comparisons hoping that one sticks. Go play in your pen, sheep.

The evidence for the existence of Jesus all comes from after his lifetime.As a result, some critics argue that Biblical scholars have created the historical Jesus in their own image. A very small number of scholars believe the gospel accounts are so mythical in nature that nothing, not even the very existence of Jesus, can be determined from them.


Took me 5 mins to find this, that includes reading wiki page in El Dins French dude.

All the historians who seem to agree about Jesus are Christian scholars.

Heard of rose tinted glasses?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Bauer...an_origins

Quote:Bauer investigated the sources of the New Testament and, beginning with Hegel's Grecophile orientation, concluded that early Christianity owed more to ancient Greek philosophy (Stoicism) than to Judaism.

Quote:According to Albert Schweitzer, Bruno Bauer's criticisms of the New Testament provided the most interesting questions about the historical Jesus that he had seen

(September 23, 2011 at 10:19 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Fairy tales, OTOH, are quite attractive to bible-thumping lunatics.

I know some bible-thrashing lunatics that are quite enamored by big budget fairy tales as well.

Fairy tales are not the exclusive domain of Xtians, or of any specific religion or movement. They are a constitutional part of all large group dynamics. Basic sociology.