There's a lot of that going around now, Atlas.

The worst part of global politics when people discuss it, is far to many on the left and right want to make it an either or situation. Some get hair triggers and want to pull apple pie, Rambo crap, and others want to isolate completely and let the world do whatever it wants. In reality neither of those are good options. If you always start wars you can end up creating more enemies you might not have had before. But if you don't get involved you end up with what happened after WW1 when we left Germany to rot. That revenge allowed the monster Hitler to sell his politics of grievances and victimhood and blind nationalism.

What was offensive to me about Trump's response to this reporter was monetizing his life as if he were simply another transaction.

I have had on other websites had it pointed out to me by some liberals that both parties have supported Saudi Arabia. Yea and we have also dealt with a bigger closed oppressive state China and North Korea. 

Atlass, and even to my friend in Pakistan, I love both of you in your ability to see beyond what your states sell you. If I could snap my fingers and suddenly make your respective countries free, I would. A world war would not benefit anyone, and it also at the same time scares me, that if we were to attack Saudi Arabia, we could end up killing Atlass in the process. 

I wish I had the perfect answer, but I do not. I do know however what can help, is if more humans worldwide learn to separate the politics of the powers above them, and the separate issue of the individuals who live under those powers.

I have talked people over my 17 years of being online, from people all over the world, good people, who are by proxy simply stuck under the power they were raised in. Atlass, I will never equate you personally to the bullies that rule over you. Just as I will not equate all Israelis as agreeing with Bibi. And I certainly hate the bully that is currently running my country now.

I have also talked to those who lived in Iran, whom hate their government, and also been in the position of telling them I was sorry as an American for my government supporting Saddam as to which as a result of that war, they lost their brother, or father. 

One of my most personal moments regarding history and conflicts, not being alive at the time, but that being my x wife's grandparents are Japanese and finally meeting them in person back in 2000, knowing they were America's enemy at the time, spoke both to our species ability to be cruel and at the same time our ability to be compassionate. Her grandparents were decent humans, whom gave birth to her parents, who gave birth to her. Now while our marriage did not work out, I know her family are good people, I wouldn't have married her otherwise.

I do give Muslims and Christians and Jews and Buddhists and Hindus a hard time as far as the claims of antiquity. But while I cant be there in person Atlass, just knowing you exist and you see beyond human tribalism, it gives me hope. Don't ever give up Atlass. Always know that outside your boarders there are people that care. And also know despite our fear mongers here , we are doing our best to stop the bully in the White House.

Our species is far more alike than we'd like to face sometimes.

Apparently Saudi Arabia has confirmed that Jamal Khashoggi was killed in the consulate after a fight. 

I heard that one of the 15 assassins has died in a "traffic accident".

(October 19, 2018 at 6:18 pm)pgrimes15 Wrote: I heard that one of the 15 assassins has died in a "traffic accident".

They’ve learnt an important lesson. If your going to take someone out, make it look like an accident.

(October 19, 2018 at 6:15 pm)Marozz Wrote: Apparently Saudi Arabia has confirmed that Jamal Khashoggi was killed in the consulate after a fight. 

So I guess they brought the bone saw to carve up the roast pork they were having after the interrogation?

If this was purely a assassination attempt, it would take but one assassin to kill him.

Uncle Putin only had to send 2 agents to bump off a target who even had spy and secret service agent training.

But having to assemble a hit squad of 15 men to abduct, torture, kill and dismember one past middle aged, pudgy journalist inside your own consulate, while having no clue how to cover your own tracks even though you control the entire scene of the crime, could not but become an comic example of the medieval barbarism and unbelievable ineptitude of the Saudi regime.

These guys are so superlatively inept and barbarous that even an United States under trump might not quite match it for a few seasons.

(October 19, 2018 at 12:17 pm)Brian37 Wrote: The worst part of global politics when people discuss it, is far to many on the left and right want to make it an either or situation. Some get hair triggers and want to pull apple pie, Rambo crap, and others want to isolate completely and let the world do whatever it wants. In reality neither of those are good options. If you always start wars you can end up creating more enemies you might not have had before. But if you don't get involved you end up with what happened after WW1 when we left Germany to rot. That revenge allowed the monster Hitler to sell his politics of grievances and victimhood and blind nationalism.

What was offensive to me about Trump's response to this reporter was monetizing his life as if he were simply another transaction.

I have had on other websites had it pointed out to me by some liberals that both parties have supported Saudi Arabia. Yea and we have also dealt with a bigger closed oppressive state China and North Korea. 

Atlass, and even to my friend in Pakistan, I love both of you in your ability to see beyond what your states sell you. If I could snap my fingers and suddenly make your respective countries free, I would. A world war would not benefit anyone, and it also at the same time scares me, that if we were to attack Saudi Arabia, we could end up killing Atlass in the process. 

I wish I had the perfect answer, but I do not. I do know however what can help, is if more humans worldwide learn to separate the politics of the powers above them, and the separate issue of the individuals who live under those powers.

I have talked people over my 17 years of being online, from people all over the world, good people, who are by proxy simply stuck under the power they were raised in. Atlass, I will never equate you personally to the bullies that rule over you. Just as I will not equate all Israelis as agreeing with Bibi. And I certainly hate the bully that is currently running my country now.

I have also talked to those who lived in Iran, whom hate their government, and also been in the position of telling them I was sorry as an American for my government supporting Saddam as to which as a result of that war, they lost their brother, or father. 

One of my most personal moments regarding history and conflicts, not being alive at the time, but that being my x wife's grandparents are Japanese and finally meeting them in person back in 2000, knowing they were America's enemy at the time, spoke both to our species ability to be cruel and at the same time our ability to be compassionate. Her grandparents were decent humans, whom gave birth to her parents, who gave birth to her. Now while our marriage did not work out, I know her family are good people, I wouldn't have married her otherwise.

I do give Muslims and Christians and Jews and Buddhists and Hindus a hard time as far as the claims of antiquity. But while I cant be there in person Atlass, just knowing you exist and you see beyond human tribalism, it gives me hope. Don't ever give up Atlass. Always know that outside your boarders there are people that care. And also know despite our fear mongers here , we are doing our best to stop the bully in the White House.

Our species is far more alike than we'd like to face sometimes.

There are other ways to increase the pressure on dictatorships and countries like Saudi Arabia; including the stopping of weapon deals and sanctions on anything related to the military. Problem is, Russia and China would jump in to fill the place of the western countries that stop the selling, that's the only thing I have in common with Trump; ironically. But that is also not an excuse to sell them weapons and high technology. Syria and Iran get everything they need from Russia and China, so it's the same oppression but with a RusChinese flavor so I can see the western crisis in foreign policy.

The first enemy for the people in the Middle East is the oppressive local governments; talking might mean death, but I take my chances -and expect the rest of my people to take their chances too- because we're already dead: life in the Middle East is not life.

I never voted, I never contributed to ruling, I never did anything because everything is closed and regulated and controlled to promise thriving and long life to the ruling circle only. I guess that makes enemies out of thin air for these regimes.

If the good people in the west want to help, just don't close the immigration doors like the Right want. There are many people outside that never lived in real societies; never lived a real life, and they'll be more than happy to live it abroad. Please don't listen to Trump and build walls.

Just like you said Brian; we're all humans. We should look at it this way; not with blind nationalism and populism.

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(October 19, 2018 at 6:15 pm)Marozz Wrote: Apparently Saudi Arabia has confirmed that Jamal Khashoggi was killed in the consulate after a fight. 

It's like an elephant hiding behind a needle.

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(October 19, 2018 at 6:18 pm)pgrimes15 Wrote: I heard that one of the 15 assassins has died in a "traffic accident".

I'm dead sure that they wish the whole squad is dead, and no witnesses remain

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(October 19, 2018 at 9:39 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: If this was purely a assassination attempt, it would take but one assassin to kill him.

Uncle Putin only had to send 2 agents to bump off a target who even had spy and secret service agent training.

But having to assemble a hit squad of 15 men to abduct, torture, kill and dismember one past middle aged, pudgy journalist inside your own consulate, while having no clue how to cover your own tracks even though you control the entire scene of the crime, could not but become an comic example of the medieval barbarism and unbelievable ineptitude of the Saudi regime.

These guys are so superlatively inept and barbarous that even an United States under trump might not quite match it for a few seasons.

The big numbers are a direct indication that it's not just the assassination that was the goal; sending a message to the rest of the people who oppose the Sauds is the goal. The hacking of Jamal is also aimed to spread fear in any opposer. The barbarism can just point you to how far the regime is welling to go, to stay in power.

They torn him, and there was a danger they'll be exposed. Imagine what they're doing to people arrested domestically.

Ah, yes.

Atlas, MK, sometimes you two surprise the hell out of me!