(October 22, 2017 at 4:12 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(October 22, 2017 at 3:21 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: There is a lot to be discussed, because, this is a central theme of why people reject Islam from my experience.

I don't believe in fairies.  It's that simple.  

Quote:I think thinking emotionally, we can do away with justice. But when thinking with clarity, there is no escaping that we are coming to either an evil end or a good end.

And this shows I don't believe in hell due to Islam but rather belief in hell is necessary for me to believe in Islam.  

The belief in religion is not non-falsifiable, one wrong teaching proven with certainty, and everything comes crumbling down.

.....lol, obviously not.  You continue to believe and so does every other believer.    

Quote:And the proof for a religion without a present manifest Guide to present physical miracles is tough on everyone for sure.

I feel if I can prove why I believe in hell, people will gain a lot of insight on to reflect over scripture and religions, whether they believe in them or not.

Or at least give both sides their proper due in reflection.

I don't care why you believe in hell.

I care why he needlessly believes in hell, just like I care that Christians also needlessly believe in hell. Theists vote and most countries are run by theists. No, not all countries are closed theocracies but even in the west our right wing votes based on their beliefs.

Don't get me wrong. I would only agree that I don't care in the context that there is no hell in reality. But I do care when it comes to humans trying to shape government policy and talk of war.

Prepare to be disappointed, lol.

(October 22, 2017 at 3:21 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(October 22, 2017 at 3:15 pm)Khemikal Wrote: You wrote god a nastygram about breaking up, you've since made up.  Happens all the time.  What's to discuss?

There is a lot to be discussed, because, this is a central theme of why people reject Islam from my experience.

I think thinking emotionally, we can do away with justice. But when thinking with clarity, there is no escaping that we are coming to either an evil end or a good end.

And this shows I don't believe in hell due to Islam but rather belief in hell is necessary for me to believe in Islam.  

The belief in religion is not non-falsifiable, one wrong teaching proven with certainty, and everything comes crumbling down.

And the proof for a religion without a present manifest Guide to present physical miracles is tough on everyone for sure.

I feel if I can prove why I believe in hell, people will gain a lot of insight on to reflect over scripture and religions, whether they believe in them or not.

Or at least give both sides their proper due in reflection.

It was a good poem.  Shows talent.  Shows introspection.
But MK -- why should we care why people reject Islam or any other religion?  The vast majority of us here (Except Atlas and other theists) have "been there, done that" already with Christianity.  You can pontificate all you want about why you've apparently "gone back", but the atheists here don't believe a hell exists, a god exists, any satan exists, or a soul, or ghosts, or angels, or leprechauns or unicorns or vampires or Tinkerbell.  We've done our own research, we're educated adults, and we don't need your fantasies.  If you're going to pontificate and preach, you really should go to a Muslim board where at least people believe a deity exists.

Belief in hell is necessary for you to believe in Islam???   Oh good grief.  The very concept of hell is absurd - evil - illogical - unfair . . . just for a small start, as you once knew.

(October 22, 2017 at 11:03 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Belief in hell is necessary for you to believe in Islam?

Yes, so it's not due to Islam that I believe in hell but rather belief in hell is a necessary trait for me to believe in Islam.

Sounds as if you could rid yourself of two problems at once if you could just get over this "hell" nonsense.

I think he's made too many mental gymnastics and has got his logical balls in a proverbial knot...

Whoever believes in hell because Quran says it exists, will, never understand Quran and it's arguments as to why hell exists.

It was the biggest hurdle in beginning, to accept Islam again, the concept of hell.

And it remains the hardest thing to accept through out the journey, and is probably why Gabriel is opposed by a great amount of Jinn and Satan followed by deception in the unseen realms.

This remains the hardest thing for me to believe, but I don't believe in it because Quran says so, I believe in it due the proofs Quran offers for it.

---

That said, today, I am questioning those proofs for hell, and I am questioning whether or not they are good proofs.

Really dude? You ain’t got enough stuff plastered over the forum you’re gonna necro a thread last posted in a year ago? A thread you started 6 years ago?

I'm telling you... Religion has done more than corrupt his brain.

(October 29, 2018 at 3:26 am)Pandæmonium Wrote: Really dude? You ain’t got enough stuff plastered over the forum you’re gonna necro a thread last posted in a year ago? A thread you started 6 years ago?

It's a good thread to discuss the issue of hell and brings in context the problems I use to have with it and still struggle with it time to time.