Once a natural process is understood, inserting god into the equation becomes pure intellectual dishonesty.

(November 10, 2018 at 5:01 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 10, 2018 at 4:36 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Did you read my post? I included a link that explains snowflake formation. Click here: https://www.noaa.gov/stories/how-do-snow...ehind-snow. But I'm curious... do you think intelligence is involved in the formation of snowflakes? How so?

Yes, I do, just as I believe there is an intelligent force underlying everything in this universe that is. How could it possibly be otherwise?

But you are not arguing, then, that individual snowflakes are crafted by a designer. You are arguing that the fundamental laws that govern snowflake production were put in place by Allah (or whatever God you believe in, you didn't say). Those are two separate arguments. 

The snowflake should satisfy as an example of how complexity CAN arise from simplicity, though.

What is your position on evolution? The age of the universe?

Quote:It is possible for an intelligent conscious being to evolve computer code. It did not evolve itself from nothing.

So your chant the same long refuted dogma

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Quote:Yes, I do, just as I believe there is an intelligent force underlying everything in this universe that is. How could it possibly be otherwise?

That's an assertion of belief not a fact

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(November 10, 2018 at 5:06 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(November 10, 2018 at 5:01 pm)Everena Wrote: Yes, I do, just as I believe there is an intelligent force underlying everything in this universe that is. How could it possibly be otherwise?

But you are not arguing, then, that individual snowflakes are crafted by a designer. You are arguing that the fundamental laws that govern snowflake production were put in place by Allah (or whatever God you believe in, you didn't say). Those are two separate arguments. 

The snowflake should satisfy as an example of how complexity CAN arise from simplicity, though.

What is your position on evolution? The age of the universe?

Now for another 100 pages of going over the same points again and again

(November 10, 2018 at 4:49 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(November 10, 2018 at 4:41 pm)Everena Wrote: They don't like to talk about macroevolution because the evidence for it is flimsy at best. The only thing that has been proven beyond any doubt is adaption.

Evidence for God, please.

This entire universe and everything in it is evidence of higher intelligence. How and why do we have consciousness? Science doesn't know the answer to that. And science does not even attempt to answer any of the whys of our existence. Like why do we exist at all? Science only attempts to discover and understand how an already existing and operating universe works. And food is evidence of God. Why do we have food for every fish, bird, insect, ... food for the approx 7.8 million different species of conscious life? Something like food being here, and being delicious and providing energy and nutrients cannot just be written off to chance or luck. Also, it is statistically impossible for all the functions of the human body to have evolved without some intelligent force underlying it all. Additionally, why would we even have a sex drive or a will to live? Just because of nothing and for no reason? How would nothingness care if our species survived? Also, we have discovered approx 200 billion different galaxies. Do you really think humans are the highest form of intelligence in 200 billion galaxies? Add all that to a planet with a enormous amount of useful materials and resources and it becomes very evident that higher intelligence must exist.

I am committed to Camus' goal of getting this thread to 1,000 pages. So I welcome the new troll.

But I smell a sock because 4 posts in, this user has saw fit to hide his/her online status. Newbies often don't possess such knowledge of the user CP nor do they have an inclination to hide their status so early. But I could be wrong.

If it is a sock... sorry, Camus... we'll get there. I promise.

(November 10, 2018 at 5:16 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: I am committed to Camus' goal of getting this thread to 1,000 pages. So I welcome the new troll.

But I smell a sock because 4 posts in, this user has saw fit to hide his/her online status. Newbies often don't possess such knowledge of the user CP nor do they have an inclination to hide their status so early. But I could be wrong.

If it is a sock... sorry, Camus... we'll get there. I promise.

Your a braver man then i i got sick of the last one 40 pages ago

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Too bad the new one has nothing new to say 

It's like they come out of production line

(November 10, 2018 at 5:16 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 10, 2018 at 4:49 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Evidence for God, please.

This entire universe and everything in it is evidence of higher intelligence. How and why do we have consciousness? Science doesn't know the answer to that.

Okay suppose that it didn't (it does)

In fact, remove yourself entirely from this situation.  If someone asked us the answer to a complicated math question...and I blurted out "42!" ...and I am wrong..the next guy...who blurts out "43!" isn't right on account of how I didn't know the answer to the question.

That, is what's known as an argument from ignorance. The idea that because someone else doesn't know something, whatever you happen to say must be true. It may be true that someone doesn't know something...but regardless..that won't mean that someone else does.

You're welcome.

Just once it would be nice if a theist could come to the table with an argument that hasn’t been thoroughly shredded a thousand times over. *yawn*

(November 10, 2018 at 5:06 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(November 10, 2018 at 5:01 pm)Everena Wrote: Yes, I do, just as I believe there is an intelligent force underlying everything in this universe that is. How could it possibly be otherwise?

But you are not arguing, then, that individual snowflakes are crafted by a designer. You are arguing that the fundamental laws that govern snowflake production were put in place by Allah (or whatever God you believe in, you didn't say). Those are two separate arguments. 

The snowflake should satisfy as an example of how complexity CAN arise from simplicity, though.

What is your position on evolution? The age of the universe?

I think God is higher intelligence, a massive form of energy perhaps. And theists. whether they be Christian, Muslim etc.. perceive God in the way that makes the most sense. Perhaps people are born in the area with the religion that will be most likely to help them along in their journey. It is important to remember that Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Judaists, Jainists, Scientologists, and even most New-Agers (the vast majority of the world) all believe in a creator God, a soul that exists separate from the body, an afterlife, and reward/redemtion. 

And a complex sculpture can arise from mere clay, but an intelligent conscious being is still required.

I think evolution is very possibly true, but parts of it are not proven beyond any doubt. The age of the universe is something we can only speculate about, with the best estimates being approx 13.8 billion years old. As far as the existence of "everything and anything" I believe God always hase been and always will be, as well as our true selves. We are what is.

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(November 10, 2018 at 5:04 pm)Kit Wrote: Once a natural process is understood, inserting god into the equation becomes pure intellectual dishonesty.

Define natural in that context. I envision a group of male stoners sitting around saying "Duuude, it all just happened naturally" Vague and it means nothing as far as I can tell. Can you come up with a solid definition of this "natural" process.

(November 10, 2018 at 5:16 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: I am committed to Camus' goal of getting this thread to 1,000 pages. So I welcome the new troll.

But I smell a sock because 4 posts in, this user has saw fit to hide his/her online status. Newbies often don't possess such knowledge of the user CP nor do they have an inclination to hide their status so early. But I could be wrong.

If it is a sock... sorry, Camus... we'll get there. I promise.

As long as CDF doesn’t leave the basement in search of gainful employment any time soon we’ll definitely get there.  Then we can put this entire thread into the hall of shame, lol. 😁