(November 12, 2018 at 3:16 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 3:09 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: I live in a country, that in my area at least is almost devoid of theists.
Its a good country with a much better system of social care than America.

So how in a mainly godless country can our morality be so much more demonstrably superior to the rather in your face Christian country of the US?

The less religious they are, the better the people tend to be. This is seen everywhere in the world.
So it follows that religion is bad for humanity.

Look at the least religious countries quality of life and crime rates. Look at the US and atheist population percentages in prison.

From the face of it Atheism makes you better.

Why would a god make it thus?

93% of the world believes in God. See for yourself 73 cited scholarly sources. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

What countries are you claiming don't believe in God? And the US is pretty darn good. We have the richest poor people in the world.

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(November 12, 2018 at 3:12 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Fine, Everena. You're not even listening. Your problem isn't that you disagree with atheists, it's that you're insensitive to the very good reasons for our disbelief. Have fun doing whatever it is you are trying to do here.

FWIW, there are theists with whom I can have a productive conversation about such matters. You simply aren't one of them. My advice is to educate yourself and work on your logic (which is horrid btw) before attempting to persuade skeptics to see things from your point of view.

Higher intelligence than mere humans as the creating force of this universe is the only logical assumption anyone can make, and I have a college education. Do you? Also, you did not answer my question.

Where are these theists that you can have productive conversations with? Any of them in this forum that can vouch for you?

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(November 12, 2018 at 4:09 pm)unfogged Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 1:45 pm)Everena Wrote: What explanation do you have for pain and suffering in the world?

Shit happens, then you die.  The trick is to make the most of it while you can because there's no good reason to believe there's anything more.  Wasting your life dreaming about a fantasy world of gumdrops and unicorns after death is just sad.

That is not a valid explanation for all the pain and suffering that exists in this world.

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(November 12, 2018 at 4:23 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 4:09 pm)Everena Wrote: [quote pid='1847326' dateline='1542044702']
What explanation do you have for pain and suffering in the world?

The obvious explanation is that it's not all about individuals.
Individualism arose in the West (as a concept) at a specific time.
It can be traced. Since you can't even read an article and get what it's talking about correct,
I suspect you have very little education.

Evolution is not about individuals. It's about species survival.
In that context, pain and suffering is what it is.
The universe doesn't give a rip about individuals.

In tribal cultures, individuals also don't matter. Which is why in the Bible, personal immortality did not exist until after the
rise of individualism. In tribal cultures, only the tribe matters ... not individuals.

Religion / theism has no answer to the problem of theodicy.

[/quote]
What article specifically are you claiming I did not understand?

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(November 12, 2018 at 4:05 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: We all done with this moron yet?

I like the fact it’s offended by the slutty picture. And by eating meat. Let the hilarity commence.

I'm not an it, I am a human being. I'm not offended by slutty pictures, I just don't care to be compared to someone posing for one, and I eat meat every damn day.

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(November 12, 2018 at 4:39 pm)no one Wrote: Why do I need to prove myself to this massive asshol,....er, I mean form of energy?

We have a goal to acheive here of becoming better people so we can be rewarded with eternity in paradise. As you know though, you can do anything you darn well please.

It might be helpful for you to lay out what -would- be a valid explanation for all the pain and suffering in the world?  If the only category you can find here..that you would accept, are the articles of your faith..then you are not actually looking for any explanation of all the pain in suffering in the world, and no explanation of all the pain in suffering in the world would be valid to you unless it were a restatement of the articles of your faith.

Meanwhile, both pain and suffering are explicable, and by natural means.  Whatever plans your meat fairy might have to use pain and suffering on us in it's soul making experiment is extraneous to that...and it's plan is only working (if it exists at all, and if it has a plan, and if it is working) because of our very natural ability to experience pain...and suffering. If we didn't possess this natural ability, then no amount of scheming on the part of meat fairy would produce the intended effect.

-and there's still the issue of that baby getting eaten by a vulture..having learned nothing...and the issue of the god who watches it happen and does nothing, because it has no concept of kindness, compassion, or generosity.

After -aaaaaaaaallll- of that...there's the issue of this "reward". Dafuq? If I was interested in eternity I wouldn't be interested in eternity in some other dimensions paradise. I'll just stay right here, in my home, with everyone I know and love. I'm unconcerned about "deserving" whatever this pain and suffering inflicting sociopathic fairy is doling out to all the folks who licks it's hole and call it their soulmate....lol? It can fuck right off, and remember to close the door..all the bought air is getting out!

I've never understood what theists expect to see happen when they tell us something that is both false and repulsive?

(November 12, 2018 at 4:40 pm)Everena Wrote: We have a goal to acheive here of becoming better people so we can be rewarded with eternity in paradise.

Ew. That's no incentive for me to become a better person -- the idea of being trapped anywhere for eternity utterly horrifies me.

What about other planets? What makes the third stone from the sun so special?

(November 12, 2018 at 4:55 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 4:40 pm)Everena Wrote: We have a goal to acheive here of becoming better people so we can be rewarded with eternity in paradise.

Ew.  That's no incentive for me to become a better person -- the idea of being trapped anywhere for eternity utterly horrifies me.

Well then don't be one and keep coming back here for thousands of lifetimes until you do feel like being one. It's all up to you. We are all god and the masters of our own destiny. We are just imperfect gods, striving for perfection at different rates of speed.

No we’re not.

(November 12, 2018 at 4:55 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 4:40 pm)Everena Wrote: We have a goal to acheive here of becoming better people so we can be rewarded with eternity in paradise.

Ew.  That's no incentive for me to become a better person -- the idea of being trapped anywhere for eternity utterly horrifies me.

That's about it really. Problems with one's mortality. It comes for us all, believing in gods or not.

Oh well, better enjoy while not it.

(November 12, 2018 at 4:53 pm)Khemikal Wrote: It might be helpful for you to lay out what -would- be a valid explanation for all the pain and suffering in the world?  If the only category you can find here..that you would accept, are the articles of your faith..then you are not actually looking for any explanation of all the pain in suffering in the world, and no explanation of all the pain in suffering in the world would be valid to you unless it were a restatement of the articles of your faith.

Meanwhile, both pain and suffering are explicable, and by natural means.  Whatever plans your meat fairy might have to use pain and suffering on us in it's soul making experiment is extraneous to that...and it's plan is only working (if it exists at all, and if it has a plan, and if it is working) because of our very natural ability to experience pain...and suffering.  If we didn't possess this natural ability, then no amount of scheming on the part of meat fairy would produce the intended effect.  

-and there's still the issue of that baby getting eaten by a vulture..having learned nothing...and the issue of the god who watches it happen and does nothing, because it has no concept of kindness, compassion, or generosity.

After -aaaaaaaaallll- of that...there's the issue of this "reward".  Dafuq?  If I was interested in eternity I wouldn't be interested in eternity in some other dimensions paradise.  I'll just stay right here, in my home, with everyone I know and love.  I'm unconcerned about "deserving" whatever this pain and suffering inflicting sociopathic fairy is doling out to all the folks who licks it's hole and call it their soulmate....lol?  It can fuck right off, and remember to close the door..all the bought air is getting out!

I determined my explanation for pain and suffering by deciding on the only thing that would make this a fair and just universe. The fact that over a billion people in the world think so too was just an added bonus.

(November 12, 2018 at 4:55 pm)Astreja Wrote: Ew.  That's no incentive for me to become a better person -- the idea of being trapped anywhere for eternity utterly horrifies me.

(November 12, 2018 at 4:58 pm)Everena Wrote: Well then don't be one and keep coming back here for thousands of lifetimes until you do feel like being one. It's all up to you. We are all god and the masters of our own destiny. We are just imperfect gods, striving for perfection at different rates of speed.

No, I think it's considerably more likely (as in 0.999... probability) that our "selves" are just constructs of our physical brains and automatically cease to exist at the moment of brain death. As I see it, my real eternal destiny is for the molecules in my body to wander off and become other things, none of which have any particular connection to the "me" that I am currently aware of.

And I'm fine with that destiny.

(November 12, 2018 at 4:57 pm)no one Wrote: What about other planets? What makes the third stone from the sun so special?

It's where we live.