(November 14, 2018 at 1:15 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(November 14, 2018 at 1:09 pm)Everena Wrote: Everena: I am not talking about the speciation evidence, which is not evidence of one species turning into an entirely different species. It is mountains of evidence of adaption within a species, like I just said.

Observing a speciation event, and even further still..cladogenesis, in the lab..and in the field, is the strongest and most compelling evidence for speciation which could be imagined.  We have seen the thing you contend we have no evidence for happen, in real time..multiple times.  We also see the markers of those events in the genetics of all living things.

This, is a fact of evolution.  The theory of evolution attempts to explain that fact.  

Quote:Everena: You've seen it where exactly? Plants? Do you think you are a plant now too?

Yes, Ev, brassicas are plants.  You'll probably find some in your fridge, even.  We bred a bunch of vegetables out of a singular ancestor.  

Quote:Everena: No, I am saying there is very little evidence to support the theory that one species turns into an entirely different species

Except for the fact that we've seen it happen, multiple times, in the lab and in the field...and that we've seen even greater changes than this occur, in cladogenesis....

..............sure?

Everena: No, you sure haven't. I've seen the flimsy evidence and it consists of the fruit fly debacle that was disproven, reproven and is now contested and some plants. Not convinced sorry

(November 14, 2018 at 2:49 pm)Mathilda Wrote:

(November 14, 2018 at 2:42 pm)Khemikal Wrote: What ya want, for mankilling..is an atlatl.  Easier to manufacture, easier to use, much more lethal.

Useful to know. Thanks!

Yet another service we provide. 

---

(November 14, 2018 at 2:59 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 14, 2018 at 1:15 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Observing a speciation event, and even further still..cladogenesis, in the lab..and in the field, is the strongest and most compelling evidence for speciation which could be imagined.  We have seen the thing you contend we have no evidence for happen, in real time..multiple times.  We also see the markers of those events in the genetics of all living things.

This, is a fact of evolution.  The theory of evolution attempts to explain that fact.  

Yes, Ev, brassicas are plants.  You'll probably find some in your fridge, even.  We bred a bunch of vegetables out of a singular ancestor.  

Except for the fact that we've seen it happen, multiple times, in the lab and in the field...and that we've seen even greater changes than this occur, in cladogenesis....

..............sure?

Everena: No, you sure haven't. I've seen the flimsy evidence and it consists of the fruit fly debacle that was disproven, reproven and is now contested and some plants. Not convinced sorry

There ya go - you managed to hit a button!

What flimsy evidence?  In what way is observing a speciation event flimsy evidence for speciation? In what way is being able to identify the genetic locus of a speciation event flimsy evidence that the species has..well..speciated?

Are you aware of any form of evidence stronger than direct observation? Could you describe that sort of evidence for me?

I blame human emphathy for all of this. People see starving trolls, kittens, puppies et al and keep feeding them.

From other outlook, there might be readers out there learning something, so nothing is lost in the exercise.

If nothing else we'll end up with a lasting monument to stupidity...and every new cretinist can be referred to this thread ala "GJ< nutball...only 1199 pages to go!"

(here's to hoping this thread hits twelve hundo)

(November 14, 2018 at 2:52 pm)Everena Wrote: The universe and all conscious life is evidence for our beliefs. You have no evidence that God doesn't exist.

The laws of thermodynamics and the constant speed of light is evidence that gods do not exist.

(November 14, 2018 at 3:09 pm)LastPoet Wrote: I blame human emphathy for all of this. People see starving trolls, kittens, puppies et al and keep feeding them.

From other outlook, there might be readers out there learning something, so nothing is lost in the exercise.

My braincells are killing themselves reading some of this crap, though.

Pfft. Girls don’t need brains...

Boru

(November 14, 2018 at 2:20 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(November 14, 2018 at 1:52 pm)Everena Wrote: Everena: Define natural in that context. A clear concise defintion. And intelligence was required for us to have the DNA the communicates in 2 languages and creates eyes that can see, ears that can hear, nose that can smell, arms that can hug, legs that can walk, and yes genitals that can orgasm and reproduce. How can you even pretend to think that all that could come about from nothing with no intelligence? And we have conscious self awareness and intelligence and emotions and no one can effectively explain why or how, unless there is an intelligent agent involved. Face it- God does exist.

Words, how do they work..and what -is- word..anyway? 
Everena: When you are using it as your reason that everything came to be, you should have no trouble defining it.
:jerkof:

For the purposes of our conversation, natural need only refer to what can be and has been accomplished without any need of a meat fairy.  Like the evolution of genitalia or the existence of a sex drive.  I keep telling you that I don't think that any of it came from nothing, so I don't know why you keep asking me...why I believe it all came from nothing?
Everena: Either it came to be from nothing with no intelligence or it came to be from higher intelligence aka God. There are no other options, sorry.

Quote:Everena: Yes people died at a younger age, but when you believe in eternal life,  they just crossed over to a better place. Only atheists think death is bad,

I don't care where you think they went, or if you think the place they allegedly go is a better place, and no..people didn't just "die young"..they died of starvation..which is what we have been discussing. 
Everena: And? What does that have to do with anything? People have died more tortuous deaths than just from starvation.
Nor, for that matter, would it matter if they went to a better place.  If I hit you on the head with a brick and then hand you a lollipop, that won't change the fact that I have hit you on the head with a brick.  Similarly, your meat fairy intentionally starved us..allegedly, so that we could get a golden ticket to it's theme park in the sky. 

At least until we figured out how to entirely fuck up it;s divine plan,
Everena: God does not have a divine plan. We are here and this is OUR challenge. When we intentionally hurt others, we will suffer it back until we learn to be better people. And the design is perfect for our needs here. What problems do you have with the design? Are you attracted to humans? Would you want it to be some other way?
that is, lol.  Some design...some designer.

Quote:Everena: None of that matters and there is still plenty of wild food all over the world that tastes good. We are intelligent beings and so what if we made stuff taste better? We had to have the brains and the materials to do it with and those things are also provided by our amazing planet.

There is emphatically not plenty of wild food all over the world, let alone a bunch of it that tastes good. 
Everena: Yes there is. There is a ton of wild food that tastes fanastic all over this planet.

I appreciate that you're trying to find a way to agree with me, now..but doing so utterly destroys your own previous arguments.  The fact that we have plenty to eat (when we have it) that tastes good (when it does)..is explained by our own intelligence, not meat fairies.  Do you understand?

Quote:Everena: I know what it is. I think a vegetarian diet is much better for you. However, the principles of surviving on naural foods that are less processed is also a positive health decision.

Your dietary opinions are irrelevant to the argument you fielded in support of a meat fairy.  If a vegetarian diet were better for us, one wonders why the meat fairy made us omnivorous,
Everena: We are choosing to be omnivorous. We can live without meat and millions do.

and why the meat fairy failed to provide us with vegetables.  

Quote:Everena: And we were able to do so with our planet provides, like I said before.

Insomuch as we've been able to, sure, and we still starve. 
Everena: The Christians have cut the starvation problem in this world down by more than in half. We can always do more. This is our challenge to fix our social problems
All of this, ultimately, due to the meat fairies intentions or oversights.  A cruel and cold intention, or oversight..of the sort you reject.  

Quote:Everena: Nope. And stop making up stupid shit.

You'll have to be more specific.
Everena: LOL

Quote:Everena: I have deist beliefs . This planet is our responsibilty and our challenge. We have the brains, we have the materials and resources. It is pretty obvious that WE are supposed to be fixing our own problems.

Here, at least, we agree with each other wholeheartedly.  That does not change the fact that you have presented demonstrably false arguments for your meat fairy which are inconsistent with your own beliefs and positions
Everena: No, look up deist. It's what Benjamin Franklin was.
..stated in this thread.

Quote:Everena: Everything that is food and everything that we use to make food is natural to our planet. We tamper with food in many ways, and more we tamper with it, the less nutritious it becomes.

Define natural in context.
Everena: Existing on our planet
See how stupid that was.......? NO, and I am not claiming it as a CAUSE for everything that exists, you are and it's vague and means nothing in the context you are using it in.

Unfortunately, you have made another demonstrably false claim.  The items you mentioned earlier, berries nuts rice and taters, we tampered with initially.... just to make them edible.
Everena: Yes, because we also have fire and electricity and salt to purify and a wealth of other materials and resources available on this planet.
  They provided -no- nutritional value to us, as I've already explained to you..much of it was lethal to us before that tampering.  Consider the job of the early potato pioneer.  He or she had to test, by eating the tubers..which ones wouldn't kill them.  You can imagine what happened when they happened upon the wrong tubers as they improved the wild cultivars from something that killed them..to something that only made them sick (but kept them from starving) to something that did not make them sick, to something that was tasty, and then finally to something that was productive.

More recently, we have been tampering with our food to make it even more nutritious than we already have made it.  Golden rice, for example.

Quote:Everena: And the point still stands and no one is eating us. Why do these plants and animals provide us with food that not only tastes good, but also provides us with nutrients to stay alive? You cannot just write that off to luck or chance.

This is not only historically untrue, it's untrue in the present.  There are creatures eating you...right now.  Again, these plants and animals that provide us with food and taste good have been specifically bred to do so and be so.......by us. 

I do not write it off to luck or chance, I only point out that your meat fairy does not get to claim credit..
Everena: God gets credit for creating the planet and every useful thing in it.


for example..for the work of those potato pioneers who risked their lives so that one day..you, a monumentally stupid and ungrateful person...could log onto these boards and shitpost about gods for however many pages until you give up or get better.

Quote:Everena: What the fuck is natural evil? There is no natural evil. People are evil sometimes and when they are intentionally evil, they suffer that pain back until they learn to be better people.

You should probably learn the terms upon which your own theology depends if you want to discuss it with people who do know those terms, and understand that theology far better than yourself.  People like me.  
Everena: People here commit evil deeds with their own free will. People keep coming back here lifetime after lifetime to suffer all the pain that they have intentionally caused to others (aka karma, and it is in every single religion). They keep going through the cycle until they become better and more godlike and are deserving of an eternity in paradise.

Quote:Everena: God only created this flesh. God did not create our souls/true selves. Our true selves always have been and always will be and we are here because we need improvement.

Cool story.  If meat fairy created this flesh, and this world, then meat fairy created natural evil.  
Everena": NO, we have free will and we are choosing whether to be evil  or to be good. 

Quote:Everena: The God Delusion is atheist propaganda. A Universe from Nothing is atheist propaganda. You get the idea

Never read it, and I don't believe that the universe came from nothing...so no amount of bitching about either thing, to me, is meaningful.  You need to learn a new routine.  

(November 14, 2018 at 3:19 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Pfft. Girls don’t need brains...

Boru

They're quite important for my job.

(November 14, 2018 at 3:28 pm)Everena Wrote: Everena: When you are using it as your reason that everything came to be, you should have no trouble defining it.

Jesus, you're right back to being bad at hitting buttons, huh?

I repeat.....

Quote:Everena: Either it came to be from nothing with no intelligence or it came to be from higher intelligence aka God. There are no other options, sorry.

This is what's known as a false dichotomy.  A poor argument even when the specifics are unknown, laughable when they are known, and evade the fallacious argument.

Quote:Everena: And? What does that have to do with anything? People have died more tortuous deaths than just from starvation.

Indeed!  People have died many horrible deaths for many horrible reasons.  All of which, ultimately, the responsibility of the meat fairy who made us thusly.  

Quote:Everena: God does not have a divine plan. We are here and this is OUR challenge. When we intentionally hurt others, we will suffer it back until we learn to be better people. And the design is perfect for our needs here. What problems do you have with the design? Are you attracted to humans? Would you want it to be some other way?

Well, that's not what you told us before...you told us that this creation was a soul improvement machine.  

Quote:Everena: Yes there is. There is a ton of wild food that tastes fanastic all over this planet.

"Nuh uh, uh huh, nuh uh, uh huh"..meanwhile, even the most cursory glance at the interwebs will yield report after report of the cpollapse of what natural stocks we have not already eradicated.  You are welcome to your own opinions, but I will not grant you your alternative facts.  

Quote:Everena: We are choosing to be omnivorous. We can live without meat and millions do.

Yeah, I'm sure that's how it works.  Back before I was being ensouled..I checked the "omnivory" box.  Get outta here with this garbage, you uneducated simpleton, lol.

Quote:Everena: The Christians have cut the starvation problem in this world down by more than in half. We can always do more. This is our challenge to fix our social problems

That's an impressive claim..who told you that....the christians?  They're always saying stupid and stupidly false shit, I think we can both agree there.  

Quote:Everena: LOL

So, no specifics, you just wanted to blurt out a word in frustration?  Noted.

Quote:Everena: No, look up deist. It's what Benjamin Franklin was.

............................................................and?

Quote:Everena: Existing on our planet

Exactly like meat fairy and meat fairies work doesn't...rgr.  

Quote:NO, and I am not claiming it as a CAUSE for everything that exists, you are and it's vague and means nothing in the context you are using it in.

Unimpressive.  You do claim, wrongly, that meat fairy is the cause of the things which we ourselves have produced.

Quote:Everena: Yes, because we also have fire and electricity and salt to purify and a wealth of other materials and resources available on this planet.

Gish gallup.  Yes, we have all of those things..and we are -still- the explanation for our food, and that our food is so tasty...and this would be true even if there were a meat fairy...which there isn't.

Quote:Everena: God gets credit for creating the planet and every useful thing in it.

Unless it's the bad shit..right, then it's our fault and our problem.  Funny how that works out.  We did invent our food, but we didn't invent natural evil.  Meat fairy gets credited for our food...we get blamed for natural evil.

Quote:Everena: People here commit evil deeds with their own free will. People keep coming back here lifetime after lifetime to suffer all the pain that they have intentionally caused to others (aka karma, and it is in every single religion). They keep going through the cycle until they become better and more godlike and are deserving of an eternity in paradise.

No evil deed of mans created the botfly.  That was meatfairy...at least, if what you believe is true.

Quote:Everena": NO, we have free will and we are choosing whether to be evil  or to be good. 

Cool story, but that has nothing to do with all of the natural evil you insist that meatfairy created and then blame on us for reasons of your being a dunce who doesn't believe in her own silly shit.