(October 13, 2018 at 2:55 pm)purplepurpose Wrote:

(October 13, 2018 at 2:41 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Reflecting over Quran and Ahlulbayt [as] word's of light and clear bright signs, as well the signs of God within myself. In the "Does Quran prove God?" I will present the above argument in many verses in Quran, through out.

Quran has many good arguments for God's existence and oneness, for Atheists,  but Muslims in large part are themselves oblivious to them and have not presented them, but relied on their blind scholars for arguments like Cosmological and so on and so forth.

Don't you think that people here are too cynical to accept your praise of faith and you just waste your time?

I'm nobody. Abraham's cousin, who was like to him as Ali is to Mohammad, and Aaron to Moses, Lot, could not convince anyone but his family, and even in that, his wife rebelled against him.

It was hard on to watch them perish knowing the perpetual place of wrath in the next world, and Quran is to be read in sadness when believed in, for it was revealed in sadness and Gabriel recited it and Mohammad recited in that tone.

He didn't give up on them and even went to extremes to save them.

So if Lot's, Abraham's cousin, and a member of the chosen household of Abraham, could not save anyone except his daughters, and his wife rebelled....I take it from this perspective, despite the challenges of the culture of stubbornness to truth we have spread generation to generation.

Despite this inherited insincerity to truth and the infestation of taking life and God's signs in jest, and to take religion as game and caprice mixed in it all.

The sacred journey must still be defended, proofs offered, and we attempt to guide people,  because if humanity is to unite, it might as well be on the truth and God's beautiful names and not the falsehood.

If we are to unite, it might as well be on recognition of God's proofs and not on inclining to disputes and following our desires to cling to whatever sect we wish to and group to be affiliated to.


AtheistForums.org is a place where there is open discussion about Theism and Atheism, and I commend Tiberius for allowing freedom of speech. Many forums, you walk a very tight leash on what you can say.

May God guide our hearts, and may we love each other based on the truth of God's word brought to life and the light of his face in all things.

(October 12, 2018 at 8:03 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(October 12, 2018 at 8:01 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: Dude, I don't know what you've been smoking, but I wish you'd give us a hit off it.

There is plenty of reminders and proofs of God in his holy books, the one who by his name we ask one another through, God is the light of the heavens and the earth.

No, MK, there are plenty of CLAIMS in your holy books, none of which are backed up by logic or tangible evidence. Poetic phrases are not proof of anything other than your inability to distinguish delusion from reality.

(October 14, 2018 at 8:21 am)Gwaithmir Wrote:

(October 12, 2018 at 8:03 am)MysticKnight Wrote: There is plenty of reminders and proofs of God in his holy books, the one who by his name we ask one another through, God is the light of the heavens and the earth.

No, MK, there are plenty of CLAIMS in your holy books, none of which are backed up by logic or tangible evidence. Poetic phrases are not proof of anything other than your inability to distinguish delusion from reality.

Does Mystic Knight really not understand the difference between claims and proof?

(October 14, 2018 at 10:12 am)PRJA93 Wrote:

(October 14, 2018 at 8:21 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: No, MK, there are plenty of CLAIMS in your holy books, none of which are backed up by logic or tangible evidence. Poetic phrases are not proof of anything other than your inability to distinguish delusion from reality.

Does Mystic Knight really not understand the difference between claims and proof?

Apparently so. He's clearly off in some sort of fantasy world.

(October 12, 2018 at 11:08 am)MysticKnight Wrote: That fault is yours, Torah, Psalms, Gospels, Quran, are filled with proofs of God.

Filled? But I just said they're filled with total nonsense like talking animals, woman turning into a salt, man riding on a tornado into heaven, man living in a fish for 3 days, zombies wandering in Jerusalem, disembodied hand writing on the wall, blowing horn making walls collapse.

If you heard today someone claiming that someone rode a tornado into heaven or that disembodied hand wrote on the wall you would dismiss it nonsense but because it's in the Bible you believe it. Why do you think it's so?

And also more "proofs of God" according to MK
Genesis 24:2 Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh

Genesis 47:29 He called his son Joseph, and said unto him, If now I have not found grace in thy sight, put I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh, and deal kindly and truly with me",

Genesis 24:9 The servant put his hand under the thigh of Abraham his master, and sware to him concerning that matter

Is this something you prefer that an older guy tells you "Let me show you god" and then gropes your penis and testicles?

To come back to an earlier point:

If an atheist randomly asked a theist, "Where did god come from?" then that would be needlessly argumentative and strange.

It would be a rhetorical device that could perhaps be used in order to prompt the theist to notice a double standard part way through a debate, if applicable.

The burden of proof lies upon he who alleges. Religious people should be aware that I'm perfectly willing to believe in god(s), ghosts, mediums, demons, angels, spirits, channeling, miracles, horoscopes, astrology, psychics, Ouija boards, the supernatural, and anything else for that matter, as long as they adhere to one proviso: prove it! That's all I ask for. Just one simple request. Prove it!

 Don't give me speculations, guesses, hopes, dreams, wishes, desires, beliefs, faith (or appeals to faith), or indoctrinations. Don't give me one-time-only, non-repeatable, non-testable events. Don't give me internal alterations in one's psychology or physiology which cannot be tested, observed or demonstrated, only felt or believed. And don't give me effects that cannot be related to the supposed cause.

 I have no objection to believing in a deity as long as proof based upon a rational standard of knowledge is forthcoming. Is that too much to ask? But surely, theists can't expect me to adopt their beliefs on the basis of what has been presented, thus far. Every "proof" that I've heard and very piece of evidence that I've seen for the existence of God(s) has been easily countered by rational evidence/arguments to the contrary. No convincing evidence for the existence of any deity has ever emerged.

I'm more than willing to listen to theistic arguments or view theistic evidence as long as cross-examination is permitted. No claims which must be shielded from rational scrutiny are worth believing. As conditions now stand, theology rests far more on superstition and faith, than upon facts and reason.

(October 11, 2018 at 3:21 pm)purplepurpose Wrote:

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"Evidence for god. Do you have any?" recent topic had long and complex arguments, which I had hard time following.

I would like to see the same topic continued, but arguments must be as simple and short as possible, so everyone could follow them.

My short point is that God, even if He exists there can have an endless variations of Him, because we cannot know for sure. Yes, Bible can be true, but it's only a small chance that God uses his endless Might and Wisdom to do what even humans don't do for the most part - torture as long as you want to show how Badass you are.

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Your assumption is that
A. there is objective evidence for a creator God
B. The Bible could be true
And your question is
C. If A and B are true then why is God is an asshole for torturing people?

Does that sum up your position?

(October 12, 2018 at 11:08 am)MysticKnight Wrote: That fault is yours, Torah, Psalms, Gospels, Quran, are filled with proofs of God.

You know what this is?



This is literally map of the whole Earth as described in the Bible.

(November 20, 2018 at 9:14 am)tackattack Wrote:

(October 11, 2018 at 3:21 pm)purplepurpose Wrote:

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"Evidence for god. Do you have any?" recent topic had long and complex arguments, which I had hard time following.

I would like to see the same topic continued, but arguments must be as simple and short as possible, so everyone could follow them.

My short point is that God, even if He exists there can have an endless variations of Him, because we cannot know for sure. Yes, Bible can be true, but it's only a small chance that God uses his endless Might and Wisdom to do what even humans don't do for the most part - torture as long as you want to show how Badass you are.

---

Your assumption is that
A. there is objective evidence for a creator God
B. The Bible could be true
And your question is
C. If A and B are true then why is God is an asshole for torturing people?

Does that sum up your position?

Yes. What are you suggesting?