Quote:LaVeyan Satanism is a religion founded in 1966 by the American occultist and author Anton Szandor LaVey.

Nothing to do with atheism 

Quote:LaVey was an atheist, rejecting the existence of all gods.

Yup and his dogma has nothing to do with atheism even if he was an atheist .

Quote:The church does not believe in the Devil, nor a Christian or Islamic notion of Satan. Peter H. Gilmore describes its members as "skeptical atheists", embracing the Hebrew root of the word "Satan" as "adversary". The church views Satan as a positive archetype who represents pride, individualism, and enlightenment, and as a symbol of defiance against the Abrahamic faiths which LaVey criticized for what he saw as the suppression of humanity's natural instincts.

In other words a loopy cult imposing stuff onto atheism that has nothing to do with atheism

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(December 12, 2018 at 1:00 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Some folks routinely confuse beliefs that atheists can hold.... with atheism.

Very true

(December 12, 2018 at 1:50 am)Amarok Wrote:

Quote:LaVeyan Satanism is a religion founded in 1966 by the American occultist and author Anton Szandor LaVey.

Nothing to do with atheism 

Quote:LaVey was an atheist, rejecting the existence of all gods.

Yup and his dogma has nothing to do with atheism even if he was an atheist .

Quote:The church does not believe in the Devil, nor a Christian or Islamic notion of Satan. Peter H. Gilmore describes its members as "skeptical atheists", embracing the Hebrew root of the word "Satan" as "adversary". The church views Satan as a positive archetype who represents pride, individualism, and enlightenment, and as a symbol of defiance against the Abrahamic faiths which LaVey criticized for what he saw as the suppression of humanity's natural instincts.

In other words a loopy cult imposing stuff onto atheism that has nothing to do with atheism

So basically your idea of refuting an argument is basically saying 'nu-huh' to everything?

Satanism has everything to do with atheism because it is a godless religion, it's definitely not theism...

I love how when it comes down to what YOU believe atheism to be, it's 'no true Scotsman' galore...

It all comes down to which atheist you ask. Some say one thing, some say another. That's why it makes more sense to accept their classification as "Nones."

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(December 12, 2018 at 2:36 am)Huggy74 Wrote:

(December 12, 2018 at 1:50 am)Amarok Wrote: Nothing to do with atheism 


Yup and his dogma has nothing to do with atheism even if he was an atheist .


In other words a loopy cult imposing stuff onto atheism that has nothing to do with atheism

So basically your idea of refuting an argument is basically saying 'nu-huh' to everything?

Satanism has everything to do with atheism because it is a godless religion, it's definitely not theism...

From what I know of it, the bulk of it is atheistic. "Satan" is just a symbol within their belief and is used to signify rebellion.  Just a form of practicing within a certain set of beliefs and rules.

I love how with so many diverse religions out there, no atheist has a problem understanding that the believers are theists.
Why is it so hard for a theist to understand our one simple teeny weeny position as an atheist
It really is black and white.

Quote:So basically your idea of refuting an argument is basically saying 'nu-huh' to everything?

No refutation is pointing out the total lack relevance to atheism 

Quote:Satanism has everything to do with atheism because it is a godless religion

Nope Satanism is a cult that who positive doctrines have nothing to do with atheism at best you can say they are a group of atheists who are trying to impose idea's that have nothing to do with atheism 

Quote:, it's definitely not theism...

And it's not Atheism either

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Quote:It all comes down to which atheist you ask.

No it's not 

Quote: Some say one thing, some say another.

Only ones who have clue what atheism is 

Quote: That's why it makes more sense to accept their classification as "Nones."

Nope the classification is atheist

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Quote:From what I know of it, the bulk of it is atheistic.

Nope the bulk of it is cultist attempts at emulating theism and then trying to impose such concepts onto to atheism . Which of course doesn't work .

Quote:"Satan" is just a symbol within their belief and is used to signify rebellion. 

Yup which has nothing to do with Atheism more theistic emulation 

Quote: Just a form of practicing within a certain set of beliefs and rules.

All of which are not in anyway atheism

Some atheists believe there is no god, some atheists just don’t believe in any gods. I don’t think atheism is a belief. But I don’t really care if other people say it is. I don’t really care if it’s a belief just like I don’t care if there’s a god.

(December 11, 2018 at 11:50 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(December 11, 2018 at 9:56 pm)Grandizer Wrote: A-theism literally means not theism.

There are many versions of atheism.  Which version are you referring to?  I agree your definition is accurate, but it doesn't work in every situation because all situations where that term is invoked are not the same, and some widely differ.

Please elaborate.

Atheism, as literally defined, would be the umbrella term that covers all variations/manifestations of atheism.

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(December 12, 2018 at 12:38 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(December 12, 2018 at 12:26 am)Amarok Wrote: Bollocks

From - Common Sense Atheism

‘Atheism’ is a much simpler concept than ‘Christianity’ or ‘Hinduism’, but the word atheism is still used in a wide variety of ways.
This can cause confusion. Someone may announce that she is an atheist, and her listeners may assume she is one type of atheist, when really she is a different type of atheist.
So to clear things up, here are 17 kinds of atheism, organized into 7 sets. Some kinds of atheism can be combined in a person, and some cannot. For example, it is perfectly consistent to be an agnostic, narrow, friendly atheist. But one cannot simultaneously be both a passive atheist and a militant atheist.
This list is not definitive. There are many ways to organize and label different kinds of atheism.
For brevity’s sake, I have substituted “gods” for the usual phrase “God or gods.”

Where's the problem exactly?

Most/all these sets would easily fall under the superset "atheism", no?

The only set that may not be a subset of the atheism superset would be narrow atheism, but it would still depend on how theism itself is being defined within a particular context. If theism is defined as belief in the classical God, then atheism covers all positions that do not accept that kind of theism. If theism is defined as belief in any god, then atheism would still cover all positions that do not accept that kind of theism.

In other words, atheism is defined in terms of how theism is defined. Whatever "theism" is, "atheism" is not that. So if you're an agnostic who nevertheless isn't a theist, you're an atheist in the literal sense.

That said, I don't actually agree with "narrow atheist" being an atheist if they believe in some god. So if I were the author of that article, I'd probably scratch that one out, because a person who believes in a god is still a theist in the usual sense of the term even though they may not believe in a Supreme Being.

(December 12, 2018 at 2:47 am)ignoramus Wrote: I love how with so many diverse religions out there, no atheist has a problem understanding that the believers are theists.
Why is it so hard for a theist to understand our one simple teeny weeny position as an atheist
It really is black and white.

The problem is that what atheists say and do can be very different things.  Many claim a different belief than what you might say it is.  Who's right?

If I'm just being honest, here is what I see from the outside:

- People say it's a lack of religion, but many atheists say they are religious (This doesn't mean you)
- The atheists spent years being critical, now many are copying the same things they criticized (Churches, bibles, hymns, potlucks, religious rights, etc...)
- You go to an atheist website or social function and it's "God this, God that."  They talk about "God" or "gods" more then the theists do.
- They complain about theists trying to convert, yet they go wear "No God" t-shirts and go out and try to convert people.
- Many go out and tell everybody they need to think like them, while also preaching that the world needs to "end all religion"  Why? Think what you like and stop hassling everybody. Same goes for a lot of the theists.
- Reporting scientific conclusions that weren't concluded in any studies, then trying to use it to validate their beliefs why invalidating others.
- Running around in circles during discussions trying to dispute simple points that normally would be accepted at face value from others. For example, someone fussing about me mentioning Muslims acknowledging Kwanzaa.  By trying to create a false argument, the whole point was missed, being, "I wouldn't be offended by it" even though I'm not Muslim.

The list goes on and on.  I get annoyed by atheists and I don't have some outstanding bias to dislike them.  In fact, there are atheists I adore and call friends.  It's just the religious, dogmatic ones who spew nonsense at anybody and pretend they're something else.

If someone shows up on my doorstep, atheist, Muslim, Christian, or whatever, they are always welcome in my home and will be treated as family.  No bias against any and have friends all across the board.  But somehow they manage to be one of the most annoying groups to deal with because of all the oddities and double standards.  So I'm left throwing my hands up in the air and wondering "What the heck is wrong here?"  If you want to be an atheist, be a good atheist, treat others well, and respect others beliefs even when they are different.  Same goes for everybody else.  Be the best version you can be of whoever you are.  The end.

Quote:The problem is that what atheists say and do can be very different things.  Many claim a different belief than what you might say it is.  Who's right?

No there isn't 

Quote:If I'm just being honest, here is what I see from the outside:

You don't see much 

Quote:- People say it's a lack of religion, but many atheists say they are religious (This doesn't mean you)

Then they are wrong 

Quote:- The atheists spent years being critical, now many are copying the same things they criticized (Churches, bibles, hymns, potlucks, religious rights, etc...)

Cultist 


-

Quote: You go to an atheist website or social function and it's "God this, God that."  They talk about "God" or "gods" more then the theists do.

Which means nothing 

Quote:- They complain about theists trying to convert, yet they go wear "No God" t-shirts and go out and try to convert people.

Wearing a T shirt is not converting people 

Quote:- Many go out and tell everybody they need to think like them, while also preaching that the world needs to "end all religion"  Why? Think what you like and stop hassling everybody. Same goes for a lot of the theists.

Pointing out the flaws of religion isn't preaching 

Quote:- Reporting scientific conclusions that weren't concluded in any studies, then trying to use it to validate their beliefs why invalidating others.

False 

Quote:- Running around in circles during discussions trying to dispute simple points that normally would be accepted at face value from others. For example, someone fussing about me mentioning Muslims acknowledging Kwanzaa.  By trying to create a false argument, the whole point was missed, being, "I wouldn't be offended by it" even though I'm not Muslim.

Irrelevant 

Quote:The list goes on and on.  I get annoyed by atheists and I don't have some outstanding bias to dislike them.  In fact, there are atheists I adore and call friends.  It's just the religious, dogmatic ones who spew nonsense at anybody and pretend they're something else.

All baseless opinion 

Quote:If someone shows up on my doorstep, atheist, Muslim, Christian, or whatever, they are always welcome in my home and will be treated as family. 

Irrelevant 

Quote: No bias against any and have friends all across the board.  But somehow they manage to be one of the most annoying groups to deal with because of all the oddities and double standards.

Nope 

Quote:  So I'm left throwing my hands up in the air and wondering "What the heck is wrong here?"  If you want to be an atheist, be a good atheist, treat others well, and respect others beliefs even when they are different.  Same goes for everybody else.  Be the best version you can be of whoever you are.  The end.

All baseless opinion 


So along rant filled with nothing

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Quote:I love how when it comes down to what YOU believe atheism to be, it's 'no true Scotsman' galore...

It's not what i believe and it's not a true Scotsman sorry Huggy your grasping at straws

(December 12, 2018 at 6:29 am)Amarok Wrote:

Quote:The problem is that what atheists say and do can be very different things.  Many claim a different belief than what you might say it is.  Who's right?

No there isn't 

Quote:If I'm just being honest, here is what I see from the outside:

You don't see much 

Quote:- People say it's a lack of religion, but many atheists say they are religious (This doesn't mean you)

Then they are wrong 

Quote:- The atheists spent years being critical, now many are copying the same things they criticized (Churches, bibles, hymns, potlucks, religious rights, etc...)

Cultist 


-

Quote: You go to an atheist website or social function and it's "God this, God that."  They talk about "God" or "gods" more then the theists do.

Which means nothing 

Quote:- They complain about theists trying to convert, yet they go wear "No God" t-shirts and go out and try to convert people.

Wearing a T shirt is not converting people 

Quote:- Many go out and tell everybody they need to think like them, while also preaching that the world needs to "end all religion"  Why? Think what you like and stop hassling everybody. Same goes for a lot of the theists.

Pointing out the flaws of religion isn't preaching 

Quote:- Reporting scientific conclusions that weren't concluded in any studies, then trying to use it to validate their beliefs why invalidating others.

False 

Quote:- Running around in circles during discussions trying to dispute simple points that normally would be accepted at face value from others. For example, someone fussing about me mentioning Muslims acknowledging Kwanzaa.  By trying to create a false argument, the whole point was missed, being, "I wouldn't be offended by it" even though I'm not Muslim.

Irrelevant 

Quote:The list goes on and on.  I get annoyed by atheists and I don't have some outstanding bias to dislike them.  In fact, there are atheists I adore and call friends.  It's just the religious, dogmatic ones who spew nonsense at anybody and pretend they're something else.

All baseless opinion 

Quote:If someone shows up on my doorstep, atheist, Muslim, Christian, or whatever, they are always welcome in my home and will be treated as family. 

Irrelevant 

Quote: No bias against any and have friends all across the board.  But somehow they manage to be one of the most annoying groups to deal with because of all the oddities and double standards.

Nope 

Quote:  So I'm left throwing my hands up in the air and wondering "What the heck is wrong here?"  If you want to be an atheist, be a good atheist, treat others well, and respect others beliefs even when they are different.  Same goes for everybody else.  Be the best version you can be of whoever you are.  The end.

All baseless opinion 


So along rant filled with nothing

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Quote:I love how when it comes down to what YOU believe atheism to be, it's 'no true Scotsman' galore...

It's not what i believe and it's not a true Scotsman sorry Huggy your grasping at straws

Thanks for demonstrating.