Quote: The nonsense regarding two Daniel narrators,....Where does this stuff come from?

Quote:John J. Collins (born 1946) is the Holmes Professor of Old Testament Criticism & Interpretation at Yale Divinity School. He is noted for his research in the Hebrew Bible, as well as the apocryphal works of the Second Temple period including the sectarian works found in Dead Sea Scrolls and their relation to Christian origins.[1] Collins has published and edited over 300 scholarly works, and a number of popular level articles and books.

(December 19, 2018 at 12:09 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: T

(December 19, 2018 at 12:03 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Life experience.  I've seen unimaginable things happen that have no real explanation outside of there being a God.  With that in mind, I feel a responsibility to understand what that means for me and how it might apply to the world around me.  I think part of finding something is being willing to look for it, but to be open about it.  Not in the sense of being ignorant or going out of my way to create something, but to genuinely understand.

You are nobody.  Your life is nothing.  Your experience means nothing.  You are too ignorant to know of many explanations and too conceited to admit you lack the imagination to comprehend how there could be other explanations.

(December 19, 2018 at 12:13 am)Gae Bolga Wrote:

Quote:Development[edit]
It is generally accepted that Daniel originated as a collection of Aramaic court tales later expanded by the Hebrew revelations.[31] The court tales may have originally circulated independently, but the edited collection was probably composed in the third or early second century BC.[32] Chapter 1 was composed (in Aramaic) at this time as a brief introduction of to provide historical context, introduce the characters of the tales, and explain how Daniel and his friends came to Babylon.[33] The visions of chapters 7–12 were added and chapter 1 translated into Hebrew at the third stage when the final book was being drawn together.[33]
Authorship[edit]
Daniel is one of a large number of Jewish apocalypses, all of them pseudonymous.[34] The stories of the first half are considered legendary in origin, and the visions of the second the product of anonymous authors in the Maccabean period (2nd century BC).[5]
Although the entire book is traditionally ascribed to Daniel the seer, chapters 1–6 are in the voice of an anonymous narrator, except for chapter 4 which is in the form of a letter from king Nebuchadnezzar; only the second half (chapters 7–12) is presented by Daniel himself, introduced by the anonymous narrator in chapters 7 and 10.[35] The real author/editor of Daniel was probably an educated Jew, knowledgeable in Greek learning, and of high standing in his own community. The book is a product of "Wisdom" circles, but the type of wisdom is mantic (the discovery of heavenly secrets from earthly signs) rather than the wisdom of learning—the main source of wisdom in Daniel is God's revelation.[36][37]
It is possible that the name of Daniel was chosen for the hero of the book because of his reputation as a wise seer in Hebrew tradition.[38] Ezekiel, who lived during the Babylonian exile, mentioned him in association with Noah and Job(Ezekiel 14:14) as a figure of legendary wisdom (28:3), and a hero named Daniel (more accurately Dan'el, but the spelling is close enough for the two to be regarded as identical) features in a late 2nd millennium myth from Ugarit.[39] "The legendary Daniel, known from long ago but still remembered as an exemplary character ... serves as the principal human 'hero' in the biblical book that now bears his name"; Daniel is the wise and righteous intermediary who is able to interpret dreams and thus convey the will of God to humans, the recipient of visions from on high that are interpreted to him by heavenly intermediaries.[40]
Dating[edit]
The prophecies of Daniel are accurate down to the career of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, king of Syria and oppressor of the Jews, but not in its prediction of his death: the author seems to know about Antiochus' two campaigns in Egypt (169 and 167 BC), the desecration of the Temple (the "abomination of desolation"), and the fortification of the Akra (a fortress built inside Jerusalem), but he seems to know nothing about the reconstruction of the Temple or about the actual circumstances of Antiochus' death in late 164 BC. Chapters 10–12 must therefore have been written between 167 and 164 BC. There is no evidence of a significant time lapse between those chapters and chapters 8 and 9, and chapter 7 may have been written just a few months earlier again.[41]
Further evidence of the book's date is in the fact that Daniel is excluded from the Hebrew Bible's canon of the prophets, which was closed around 200 BC, and the Wisdom of Sirach, a work dating from around 180 BC, draws on almost every book of the Old Testament except Daniel, leading scholars to suppose that its author was unaware of it. Daniel is, however, quoted in a section of the Sibylline Oracles commonly dated to the middle of the 2nd century BC, and was popular at Qumran at much the same time, suggesting that it was known from the middle of that century.[42]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Daniel

(December 19, 2018 at 12:15 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(December 19, 2018 at 12:07 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: Do you mind me asking, what kinds of things?  Obviously, don’t feel obligated to go into further detail if you aren’t comfortable doing so.

I don't mind sharing, but I didn't want to go into too much detail and get ahead of anyone.

When I was a kid, I had to go to church every Sunday.  As far as churches go, it was very dry is how they shared and preached.  The people were friendly, but as a kid, it wasn't very appealing.  But I remember even at that time, I had a perception of God and that He was there in some form, but not with an identity that I could fully understand as a child.  As I got older, my dad came down with a very rare blood disorder. He was on blood transfusions, and wasn't given much time to live.  He went to a clinic and received an experimental treatment, but the prognosis wasn't good.  The doctors happened to be Christians and all they knew to try was to pray for him.  By some miracle, or whatever you choose to call it, he made a rough, but full recovery and is still alive at age 75, which is some thirty-plus years later and no trace of the disease.  I'll stop there for a minute so you can catch up, but that's not all of it.

(December 19, 2018 at 12:17 am)Amarok Wrote:

Quote: The nonsense regarding two Daniel narrators,....Where does this stuff come from?

People with far more understanding the you

(December 19, 2018 at 12:23 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(December 19, 2018 at 12:13 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Daniel

BS propaganda.

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(December 19, 2018 at 12:15 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: I don't mind sharing, but I didn't want to go into too much detail and get ahead of anyone.

When I was a kid, I had to go to church every Sunday.  As far as churches go, it was very dry is how they shared and preached.  The people were friendly, but as a kid, it wasn't very appealing.  But I remember even at that time, I had a perception of God and that He was there in some form, but not with an identity that I could fully understand as a child.  As I got older, my dad came down with a very rare blood disorder. He was on blood transfusions, and wasn't given much time to live.  He went to a clinic and received an experimental treatment, but the prognosis wasn't good.  The doctors happened to be Christians and all they knew to try was to pray for him.  By some miracle, or whatever you choose to call it, he made a rough, but full recovery and is still alive at age 75, which is some thirty-plus years later and no trace of the disease.  I'll stop there for a minute so you can catch up, but that's not all of it.

That is very interesting.  Thanks for sharing that.

(December 19, 2018 at 12:17 am)Gae Bolga Wrote:

Quote:John J. Collins (born 1946) is the Holmes Professor of Old Testament Criticism & Interpretation at Yale Divinity School. He is noted for his research in the Hebrew Bible, as well as the apocryphal works of the Second Temple period including the sectarian works found in Dead Sea Scrolls and their relation to Christian origins.[1] Collins has published and edited over 300 scholarly works, and a number of popular level articles and books.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_J._Collins

Just guys like that and all of the work that they and others like them have piled up over the centuries...but I'm sure you know better, ofc.

(December 19, 2018 at 12:26 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: You're in a pretty rough spot if your pagan beliefs compel you to exclaim "BS propaganda" at the mundane observations of a bunch of seminary professors.

They're not low rent amateurs like the pastor at your tent revival, CDF.  Does having an educated faith not appeal to you?