(December 20, 2018 at 11:21 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(December 19, 2018 at 3:22 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Feel free to ask questions. That's kinda why I stopped so I didn't get ahead of anything and having to try to explain multiple things at the same time.

Okay, so I have two follow-up questions.  I’m assuming for my inquiry that you agree that rare medical phenomena occur that are unrelated to god.  If you don’t agree, please do correct me:

1. If rare medical phenomena occur that are unrelated to god (cancers going into remission, people coming out of comas against the odds, etc.), by what method can we distinguish between rare recoveries with natural causes, and miraculous recoveries caused by god?

2. If a Christian and a Muslim can both use miraculous healings as evidence for god, yet conclude mutually exclusive gods, what do you think that means about the reliability of that method?

Quote:As far as my dad healing, it goes a little beyond that.  My dad did not adhere to any belief is God.  Of course my mom was grieved because she did.  She married someone, their views weren't the same, and that same person she was genuinely concerned for was about to die.  I think kids can sometimes be the best observationists.  At that age and you experience something and you remember it without a lot of the extra biases, because we're still in a relative stage of innocence with how we see and determine life for us.  Just the impact alone the concern it was having on her was a lot, but to know I could very well lose my dad, and that he's far away in another state getting treatment was difficult.

That’s terrifying. Both my parents are still healthy as horses. I can’t imagine even having to think or worry about such a thing as a child.  I’m sorry you and your mom had to go through that. As a parent it makes me so sad to know children have to suffer those kinds of losses. It seems unfair somehow.  I’m glad your dad is okay though.  

Quote:On that alone, it makes sense for me to ask not only "how?" but "why? "  I didn't adhere to any specific belief in God at that point, but it was part of the process.

I agree with you that it seems intuitive, especially at a young age, to ask those questions under such circumstances, though I think it’s important to consider all possible answers. To me, one possible answer is, ‘it just happened’, though I understand why that’s not necessarily a satisfying one for many people.

Sorry for the slow response. I decided to take a couple days as a breather from this place.  Although I enjoy a lot of the conversations, it can be a bit over the top at times, so for my own good I needed to step back.  Had to go back and find your post as well.

I'll try to provide thoughtful answers, but if I don't tough on something, feel free to follow up.  I also agree with your statement about rare phenomena being natural.

1. I'm mostly speaking subjectively here, so please keep that in mind.  I think that once you see something at what would be considered the "point of no return" and that somehow changes with no apparent natural explanation, then it becomes a piece of a larger puzzle.  He had what was called "Wegener's Granulomatosis", which is an autoimmune disease that constricts the blood vessels and as such it begins to shutdown various organs.  He was in an advanced stage of this, and I believe the prognosis was less than 30 days.  It was also over 30 years ago when there were less known treatment options. I think I mentioned earlier that he had to go to another state so they could administer an experimental treatment.  Addtionally, he was getting blood transfusions.  When everything was thought to have failed, the doctors were the ones who prayed for him.  From that moment, he began to recover.  Maybe a year or two later, it had completely vanished and he was back to work.  He went back and worked about another 25 years, until he retired around age 72-73. A little bit grumpier than he used to be, but regardless, he's still around.  In fact, visited me yesterday.  So to answer your question more directly, I don't know that there is, or even has to be, a method to distinguish.  If something happens, we just measure it against ourselves and do our best to understand.  Over the course of life, hopefully that leads us down a path we are content with.

2. I think it reflects genuine love for the human condition from God (if you will).  If just for the sake of discussion, we assume God, and we see a belief from various backgrounds that He does intervene very directly at times, then maybe it would be better to understand why it is like that.  My belief (again subjective) is that there is a greater understanding of where we are at as individuals, rather than just being bound by our interest in a religion of ideology.  I know everybody doesn't accept the Bible, but if we go by it, then a woman named Rahab, who was regarded as a prostitute and a harlot, through an act of faithfulness, managed to end up being the great great great great great etc... grandmother of Jesus.   Of course some may say "it didn't happen", but if it did, then for me I can consider it, and that is another piece that can go into that larger puzzle.

I appreciate your questions and your kindness.  If you would like me to clarify or expand on anything feel free to ask.  Also, can you share a little about your background in terms of life, religion, atheism, or whatever it is you define yourself by? Thanks.

(December 22, 2018 at 12:11 pm)CDF47 Wrote: I'd like to see your post of Jack take on Dr. Stephen C. Meyer in a debate.  Every debate I have seen Dr. Meyer in it was a landslide win for him against atheist scientists.

Never mind Stzozak, I'd wipe the floor with Meyer in evolution, and I'm trained in accountancy (though my current job is filtering child welfare issues between health services and the Guards).

At least I understand the basics of evolution, and am capable of reading a scientific paper, two qualities Meyer lacks.

(December 22, 2018 at 5:04 pm)Wololo Wrote:

(December 22, 2018 at 12:11 pm)CDF47 Wrote: I'd like to see your post of Jack take on Dr. Stephen C. Meyer in a debate.  Every debate I have seen Dr. Meyer in it was a landslide win for him against atheist scientists.

Never mind Stzozak, I'd wipe the floor with Meyer in evolution, and I'm trained in accountancy (though my current job is filtering child welfare issues between health services and the Guards).

At least I understand the basics of evolution, and am capable of reading a scientific paper, two qualities Meyer lacks.

I would be happy to host a debate and contact him if you would like to do a live debate with him.  I don't know him personally, but I'm sure I could reach him for a response at least. Also have the platform for hosting it as a live feed.  Just let me know.

Quote:I'd like to see your post of Jack take on Dr. Stephen C. Meyer in a debate.  Every debate I have seen Dr. Meyer in it was a landslide win for him against atheist scientists.

Debates don't settle science peer review does . And he wins only in the alternate universe in your head

(December 22, 2018 at 10:16 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Pandering doesn't win arguments/debates.

What exactly is the loot on that? does one get sum l33t gear from defeating a theist? nah. just moar bullshit back. ultimately true. So why are you here?

(December 22, 2018 at 5:52 pm)LastPoet Wrote:

(December 22, 2018 at 10:16 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Pandering doesn't win arguments/debates.

What exactly is the loot on that? does one get sum l33t gear from defeating a theist? nah. just moar bullshit back. ultimately true. So why are you here?

Your statement was not only pandering but it was self-defeating.  Why use conjecture to claim something, then suggest he is invalidated because of conjecture?

What loot would you like?  Why does there need to be loot?  Does winning "anything" suggest there has to be a prize?

How do you know I'm here?  What does "here" mean?  Am I really here, or are just my words "here"?

-End Transmission-

(December 22, 2018 at 6:00 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(December 22, 2018 at 5:52 pm)LastPoet Wrote: What exactly is the loot on that? does one get sum l33t gear from defeating a theist? nah. just moar bullshit back. ultimately true. So why are you here?

Your statement was not only pandering but it was self-defeating.  Why use conjecture to claim something, then suggest he is invalidated because of conjecture?

What loot would you like?  Why does there need to be loot?  Does winning "anything" suggest there has to be a prize?

How do you know I'm here?  What does "here" mean?  Am I really here, or are just my words "here"?

-End Transmission-

Well, until you and all theists become aware enough, that your personal fantasies need not to be bound to others, that disbelief or believe differently from you, should be personal not legislative, I am here to put your magic friend fantasy at stake. The day you recognize that, that figment of your imagination is your personal faith, it's all fine and dandy. Just keep that while you are kneeling.

"You"??? I guess that means "me."

So what personal belief? What statement have I made that suggests you should be "bound" by "fantasies" or anything else as far as that goes. When did I say you couldn't have "personal" beliefs? What magic friend fantasy? What figment of my imagination? What is my personal faith? Did I even define such to you (or anyone else)? I agree it's all fine and dandy. Just not sure where you are coming up with all these ideas about things that I never said, and using terms I never used for anything. Is it all assumptive on your part? I'm happy to kneel when appropriate, and stand when I need to. Sometimes I may even lie down and take a nap or gaze up at the sky. Is that okay with you? If not, can I please have your permission so I can do those things?

You can think, believe, react, assume, or do anything else you choose, and as long as it isn't within 20 ft of me and overly aggressive, I can assure you more times than not, I don't really care and I'm not trying to change your mind. If you choose to believe otherwise, see previous statement. It's darn near irrelevant to me beyond giving you the courtesy to respond. Be well, be happy, and have a good one.

(December 22, 2018 at 6:20 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: It's darn near irrelevant to me beyond giving you the courtesy to respond.  Be well, be happy, and have a good one.

The time you spend here proves otherwise.

(December 22, 2018 at 10:35 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

(December 22, 2018 at 6:20 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: It's darn near irrelevant to me beyond giving you the courtesy to respond.  Be well, be happy, and have a good one.

The time you spend here proves otherwise.

Maybe interpret your own life, not mine.

I'm always multi-tasking online out of necessity, so no big deal to respond to things here.  Also, maybe read things in context.  I don't try to convince anybody they have to think a certain way.  If I share information, it's up to whoever to decide what to do with it, even if it's telling me to go fetch a stick because they don't care.  I just process it and move forward.   Have a good one.