(January 4, 2019 at 6:28 pm)Lek Wrote:

(January 4, 2019 at 5:57 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But - as I understand it - you DO have immigration controls, isn't that right?

Boru

Yeah, but they're being ignored, especially in California.  Thousands sneak in every day and when ICE tries to locate and send them back California ignores the law and protects them.  Another problem is that our borders are so large, it's a huge task to monitor them well - the main reason Trump wants to build a wall.

Ok, I did a bit of research on this.  California is actually following state law by not cooperating with federal authorities.  Several judges have determined that California is within the law in doing so.

The main reason Trump wants to build a wall is that he's an idiot.

Boru

(January 4, 2019 at 7:37 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(January 4, 2019 at 6:28 pm)Lek Wrote: Yeah, but they're being ignored, especially in California.  Thousands sneak in every day and when ICE tries to locate and send them back California ignores the law and protects them.  Another problem is that our borders are so large, it's a huge task to monitor them well - the main reason Trump wants to build a wall.

Ok, I did a bit of research on this.  California is actually following state law by not cooperating with federal authorities.  Several judges have determined that California is within the law in doing so.

The main reason Trump wants to build a wall is that he's an idiot.

Boru

You're right in saying that California is following state law in some cases.  Of course, those laws were conceived in the California state legislature.  They are still aiding illegal immigration nonetheless.  Don't just tell me that Trump is an idiot.  Tell me if we should be taking measures to stop illegal immigration and, if you do, what kind of measures should they be.  Or should we just let it go?

(January 4, 2019 at 8:21 pm)Lek Wrote:

(January 4, 2019 at 7:37 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Ok, I did a bit of research on this.  California is actually following state law by not cooperating with federal authorities.  Several judges have determined that California is within the law in doing so.

The main reason Trump wants to build a wall is that he's an idiot.

Boru

You're right in saying that California is following state law in some cases.  Of course, those laws were conceived in the California state legislature.  They are still aiding illegal immigration nonetheless.  Don't just tell me that Trump is an idiot.  Tell me if we should be taking measures to stop illegal immigration and, if you do, what kind of measures should they be.  Or should we just let it go?

Measures? Like ones we don't already have? Like a wall? How's a wall gonna help- especially since most of our illegal immigration issues come from air travel?

Thing is that Southern border is for years a militarized space, where corporations, including arms manufacturers Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, and Boeing, as well as the leading Israeli arms company Elbit Systems, earned billions of dollars trying to keep immigrants out.
https://www.npr.org/2012/09/12/160758471...the-border

Now of course Trump is convincing his dumb supporters that because Democrats don't want to pay for his ridiculous wall (which Mexico was supposed to pay) that they want open borders which is not the case. For just Obama was very harsh on immigrants and was nicknamed Deporter in Chief.

(January 4, 2019 at 1:51 pm)Lek Wrote: I live in the "sanctuary state" of California which refuses to aid ICE in apprehending people who are here illegally and actually seems to encourage people to come here illegally. I'm totally in favor of allowing immigration into the US and see our liberal immigration quotas as a positive.  What I don't understand is how we can exist as a nation if we don't have control over who enters the country. 

We haven't had any trouble existing these past few hundred years.  

Quote:I have a question for those who agree with the state of California and are against prosecuting those who have entered the country illegally or preventing undocumented people from crossing into the country as they wish.  What is your rationale and why is this good for us?

We need the labor, we need the pop replacement rate, we need the goods produced, and we need the taxes. Foods good, musics great...what the fuck is the problem, lol?

Also, we need to stop being assholes and let the white fright go.

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(January 4, 2019 at 11:59 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: How's a wall gonna help- especially since most of our illegal immigration issues come from air travel?

Because it's gonna be yooge, believe me. 

(January 4, 2019 at 5:32 pm)Lek Wrote:

(January 4, 2019 at 5:08 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Is your issue merely that the people are there illegally?  I mean, are they doing any harm?

Boru

They're like anybody else. Some are good some aren't. I've got nothing personal in general against them as individuals.  The problem is the big picture.  For one thing, if we can't stop people from crossing the border, the bad guys can come just as easy as the good.  We need to know who is coming. 

It would be far easier to know who is coming here if we gave them guest visas on the condition that they be photographed and fingerprinted. By setting it up so most people from south of our border can't enter the country legally in any way, we're pretty much incentivizing otherwise honest people to sneak across the border.

When children get shot in schools, you suggest to us: "Prayer is the answer."

So my answer to you is this:  Maybe try prayer?

(January 4, 2019 at 8:21 pm)Lek Wrote:

(January 4, 2019 at 7:37 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Ok, I did a bit of research on this.  California is actually following state law by not cooperating with federal authorities.  Several judges have determined that California is within the law in doing so.

The main reason Trump wants to build a wall is that he's an idiot.

Boru

You're right in saying that California is following state law in some cases.  Of course, those laws were conceived in the California state legislature.  They are still aiding illegal immigration nonetheless.  Don't just tell me that Trump is an idiot.  Tell me if we should be taking measures to stop illegal immigration and, if you do, what kind of measures should they be.  Or should we just let it go?

There are some things that are crimes because they're awful and no one should ever do them and we need to be protected from the awful people who do them. Some things are crimes because there's a law against them. Entering our country without going through certain procedures is a misdemeanor because people want to control entry to our country, not because entering another country is wrong. Prioritizing felonies over misdemeanors is good policing when focusing on the misdemeanors is likely to result in more felonies; as in people being afraid to communicate with the police about felonies because they're afraid of being deported over a misdemeanor. Being seen as an extension of ICE makes it harder for police to address serious crimes in neighborhoods where undocumented immigrants reside. And by-the-by, ICE has only been around since 2001 or 2002; somehow we managed to get through the previous couple of centuries without it.

(January 5, 2019 at 9:31 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(January 4, 2019 at 5:32 pm)Lek Wrote: They're like anybody else. Some are good some aren't. I've got nothing personal in general against them as individuals.  The problem is the big picture.  For one thing, if we can't stop people from crossing the border, the bad guys can come just as easy as the good.  We need to know who is coming. 

It would be far easier to know who is coming here if we gave them guest visas on the condition that they be photographed and fingerprinted. By setting it up so most people from south of our border can't enter the country legally in any way, we're pretty much incentivizing otherwise honest people to sneak across the border.

Exactly. This would be the smartest thing we could do, instead of treating "those people" as an amorphous, faceless mass.

They're hardly bring ignored. Control of our international borders is a Federal issue. It is not the State of California's duty or power to do so.