(January 6, 2019 at 9:32 am)Amarok Wrote:

(January 5, 2019 at 8:23 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Whatever you say.

Got nothing to do with me

You said it, so it has everything to do with you.  If not, is there someone else who should be responsible for your words?

(January 6, 2019 at 3:26 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(January 6, 2019 at 9:32 am)Amarok Wrote: Got nothing to do with me

You said it, so it has everything to do with you.  If not, is there someone else who should be responsible for your words?

Yeah, in your world, Jesus would take responsibility.

(January 6, 2019 at 8:27 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(January 6, 2019 at 7:08 am)pocaracas Wrote: Hehe! I laughed!


It was a fair answer, indeed.

Does that mean that the standard Christian teaching implies that Jesus was already around in the OT? Hundreds of years before he was born?
Or was David a contemporary of Herod or Pontius Pilate?

Is this some sort of reverse cameo thing?


Also, about the priest's name, I found this (https://www.varchive.org/itb/zedek.htm):
""
The meaning of the name Melchizedek is “Zedek is [My] King.” Zedek, as said, is the name of the planet Jupiter, remaining so in the astronomy of the Jews in later ages. In the Talmud Zedek refers to Jupiter.(5) Zedek also has the meaning of “righteousness” or “justice.”
""

So... if King is associated with the particle "Melchi", and Zedek is "righteousness" or "justice", then is this high priest some sort of a king of the court of justice? But, at the time, it was the normal king that fulfilled this post, was it not? And that would be David, right?

Interestingly, I just noticed another name that begins with Melchi.... Melchior, which could refer to the king of the city of Ur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur).
But it seems that people associate "or" with light, instead http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Melchior

Yes, you could call it a cameo.  There are at least a few spots where it is believed to be Jesus. 

We also see it in the NT with how Jesus addresses things.

John 8:57-58 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Additionally, that is what the beginning of John implies.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Most of your English bibles just say "God" but often there is a specific name God chooses to be identified based on what is happening.  In Genesis, where is says "God created" in the English bibles, he was actually referred to "Elohim" in the older manuscripts, which means "plurality in unity"

There's always so much information to take in with anything like this.  Sometimes it can almost seem overwhelming since not only is it about finding information, but also trying to make sure it's the right information.

It's nice that it's all mostly self-consistent, isn't it?
But one can see it from a different perspective and think of it, instead of a reverse cameo, more as a retcon. Under this view, Jesus is a figure that appears in the literature to integrate and expand on the ancient (by then) notion of the Zedek guy.
Possibly written by Essene-related folk - I mean, would you associate the writers of the NT more with the Pharisees, Saducees or Essenes, if those were the only 3 options available?

Also, on a map, find Qumran, where the dead sea scrolls were found. See how that is very close to a possible route from Jerusalem to Damascus. Tell me if Paul could have come across the Essenes on that famous road.


And lastly, tell me your theory as to why this group of people so closely related to the philosophies of christianity is featured exactly ZERO times in all the writings in the bible.

Damn, do I smell 20000 posts, can we make it?

(January 6, 2019 at 5:17 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Damn, do I smell 20000 posts,  can we make it?

I'm betting we can.

(January 5, 2019 at 8:53 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(January 4, 2019 at 6:46 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: - Before, I would say I was more ignorant, but not intentionally.  Even when I'm skeptical of something, I try not to rule it out, but I don't necessarily go out of my way either, just because there's too much to do in life, and I can't focus on everything.  Just like people claiming there is a Bigfoot running around somewhere.  If there is, I'm ignorant of it, but that doesn't mean there isn't.  I'm not an enthusiast for chasing Bigfoot as a hobby, so unless someone gives me a reason to believe, besides a blurry camera picture or video, then I'll just continue on with other things. If they are right, great, I'll look at what they want to show me.  If not, great.  Glad they're doing something meaningful to them.

Well then, call me skeptical of the god notion. There isn't even a grainy video of the guy. Just some people with feelings and pseudo-inspirations.

(January 4, 2019 at 6:46 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: - There are a lot of things in this world that I wish weren't there as well, but there can still be beauty in those things.  Like finding beauty in what we view to make a mistake.  Someone lays a hot coal on a table and a child places their hand on it.  It's not a good experience for the child at that moment, but he or she knows not to touch hot coals in the future, or anything that might have been subject to large amounts of heat energy.  Not only do they know, they can tell others not to touch hot coals.  But that little singe kept someone else from being burned severely based on their experience and the knowledge they shared from it.  This is kinda what I meant before.  I tend to be very analytical and I like to be somewhere in the center of things. Knowledge is always viewed as a good thing, even when the information is negative.  It allows us all to act accordingly.

That may be so in small scales, but in large scales, for some reason, people forget what is good for them and end up supporting what was once known to be bad.

(January 4, 2019 at 6:46 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: - I understand how you view Jesus dying and then he's back.  Yep, would seem like an oddity at face value.  But it wasn't just that.  It was like that coal I was just speaking of.  At face value it seems bad that the child burned themselves.  When Jesus died, it was very similar.  Someone died a brutal death because others failed to see their value, and as such felt they had removed the problem.  The thing is, he wasn't the problem, they were.  They got what they wanted, and in return he offered what they needed.  It's not that he had to die, but that he chose to.  I think comparing it all to a bridge going across a gap would be a good comparison.  He became that bridge.  Anybody can cross, but nobody is forced to.

I understand that it works in the story. A story that  helps keep the believers in a state of somewhat suffering and awaiting that next journey... which helps keep them behaving properly, in a way.

But look at it from the point of view of a god who has always been around. A god who has always allegedly loved mankind. A god who would have always kept an eye out.
Even the story of the 10 commandments seems to suggest that god is mostly absent. But is that the story we get from Jesus' disciples points of view?

Anyway, given an always present and loving god, what is the purpose of Jesus' suffering in a single instant in a mostly illiterate era?

(January 4, 2019 at 6:46 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: I won't go around telling anybody they have to believe what I do.  What I can do is be willing to share why I believe the way I do.  What they do with that is up to them.  Yay or nay, they can be my friend regardless, and if they tell me not to talk to them about it, then I respect that.

I can live with that.
But do you mind if people probe that reason for why you believe?

The Ten Commandments do not show the Lord is mainly absent.

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(January 6, 2019 at 5:17 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Damn, do I smell 20000 posts,  can we make it?

Getting there.

[quote pid='1875398' dateline='1546814032']

The Ten Commandments do not show the Lord is mainly absent.

---

[/quote]
No gods needed. They came from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. 
Morality does not come from the gods. 
http://www.trinidadandtobagonews.com/blog/?p=2088

(January 6, 2019 at 8:52 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: [quote pid='1875398' dateline='1546814032']

The Ten Commandments do not show the Lord is mainly absent.

---

No gods needed. They came from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. 
Morality does not come from the gods. 
http://www.trinidadandtobagonews.com/blog/?p=2088
[/quote]

Egyptian sun worship is a fabrication of the devil.  Truth is mixed with lies.  There is even a false trinity of Osiris, Isis, and Horus.

I prayed to Jesus last night that this thread would die, but it didn’t. Guess he’s not real after all.

(January 6, 2019 at 4:36 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(January 6, 2019 at 8:27 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Yes, you could call it a cameo.  There are at least a few spots where it is believed to be Jesus. 

We also see it in the NT with how Jesus addresses things.

John 8:57-58 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Additionally, that is what the beginning of John implies.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Most of your English bibles just say "God" but often there is a specific name God chooses to be identified based on what is happening.  In Genesis, where is says "God created" in the English bibles, he was actually referred to "Elohim" in the older manuscripts, which means "plurality in unity"

There's always so much information to take in with anything like this.  Sometimes it can almost seem overwhelming since not only is it about finding information, but also trying to make sure it's the right information.

It's nice that it's all mostly self-consistent, isn't it?
But one can see it from a different perspective and think of it, instead of a reverse cameo, more as a retcon. Under this view, Jesus is a figure that appears in the literature to integrate and expand on the ancient (by then) notion of the Zedek guy.
Possibly written by Essene-related folk - I mean, would you associate the writers of the NT more with the Pharisees, Saducees or Essenes, if those were the only 3 options available?

Also, on a map, find Qumran, where the dead sea scrolls were found. See how that is very close to a possible route from Jerusalem to Damascus. Tell me if Paul could have come across the Essenes on that famous road.


And lastly, tell me your theory as to why this group of people so closely related to the philosophies of christianity is featured exactly ZERO times in all the writings in the bible.

Those are some good questions.  You'll have to give me just a bit of slack because some of this I would have to do a little bit of digging to accurately answer them.

- It tends to be consistent in and of itself, but I also believe there is a consistency in practice too. Sometimes we can get caught up in the fine details that we overlook the principles behind something.  If I actually go out and follow those practices, what happens?  Well, when I don't, a lot of times it becomes problematic.  Not controlling anger or even going to sleep while angry is not a good thing, and it clearly tells us these things.  But when your focal point becomes loving God and one another, then it becomes more like being in a family.   Of course we can always look at things from a different angle.  That is true even of the Bible.  You can read about bad things happening, and even followers of Christ making these mistakes.  David is a good example of this.  I'm sure you know the story of David and Bathsheba.  He was king, sought after another man's wife, tried to cover his tracks but God knew all along, yet God calls David a man after "His own heart."  It wasn't about the mistakes David made, but how he self-evaluated and allowed for correction.   Sometimes he needed a reminder, but he always got there.  After the event with Bathsheba, Nathan was sent to him and he told the story (2 Samuel 12) of a rich man with many lambs and a poor man with one lamb who his had raised and always loved.  A travel came to see the rich man, and instead of taking one of his own lambs, he took the poor man's lamb to feed him, rather than one of his many. The indication is that David took the story as literal, then he demanded justice for the poor man.  Then with the help of Nathan, it was made clear that David was that man.  This is what changed David's course.  He realized he did something wrong, and once it was clear to him, he did a hard reset and got back on track.  That is also what is expected of us.  It's less about the mistake, and more about being on track with who we knew we should be.  The Bible tells us that once we are forgiveness, God literally forgets.  It describes him as "casting our sins as far as the east is from the west (Psalm 103:12)."

- Had to look up the word "retcon."  You could perceive it that way.  There are always different ways to look at something.  There are even times we simply don't know all the details, and a guess is the best we can do.  In light of, you can always look for more information and even stay neutral on a specific detail.  That's the thing with learning, there's always more information out there.  Sometimes it's good information that leads us to something, and other times it's bad information that sets us backwards.   To debate against it being a retcon, I would have to admit that I don't have adequate knowledge at this time to do so, but I don't find it likely that it would've been based on the beliefs of the Essenes, since they were known to mesh together different beliefs.  However, they were known for being analytical, so I could see them having manuscripts. I don't have enough information to state anything conclusively though, so I'll stick to "I dunno."

- If I just had to assume, then it definitely wouldn't be the Sadducees based on their view of resurrection.  Pharisees would be a definite because we know at least Paul was one and also the son of a Pharisee.  Essenes not likely since they allowed for elements of mysticism.  There are several instances in the Bible where it may be indicating Essenes, but it doesn't specifically mention them by name.  For example in Col 2:18 it talks about not being caught up in worshiping angels with those who do.

We have groups today that consider themselves to be Essenes.  The nature of it all is rather eccentric and kind of a mix of many different ideologies and mysticism.  Of course the ancient Essenes ceased.  When I read about them more though, it kinda reminds me of that order in Game of Thrones.  I don't know if you have watched it, but anyway there is an order that seemingly means well, but they have very eccentric ways of going about it.  Anyway, probably irrelevant to this.  Here's the reference to Paul being a Pharisee.

Acts 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

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(January 6, 2019 at 9:50 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I prayed to Jesus last night that this thread would die, but it didn’t.  Guess he’s not real after all.

Did you specify when you wanted it do die?  

Maybe it's better that it continues and you even benefit from it some way?  You never know.